An Intellectual Illustration Of "strong Determination Sittings"

[Azrael]

Ever since Leo did his "Do Nothing" and "Strong Determination Sitting" videos I practiced these techniques very rigorously and I attribute fast spiritual gains especially to strong determination sittings. In the beginning I was kind of shocked of how direct this method is in releasing illusion. I just recently found an great analogy that explains especially why such a technique can bring you so much clarity so fast.

In an Alan Watts Lecture he mentioned that he has looked into the "act of torture" and makes the point that the worst part of torture is the beginning. Because in the beginning the victim is full of all his illusions and dramas. As the torture proceeds the victim over time seems to get in this drunken masochistic state in which he actually starts to get pleasure out of the pain.

I find this analogy kind of useful to explain what happens in strong determination sittings. You start off basically with all of your beliefs and are just taken through the rudest kinds of pains 'till there is nothing left then plain it. I personally found that there is a state in these sittings in which you completely surrender to the pain, you just give up and take it all in. You completely accept that you don't know when it'll stop, you accept the roughness of the sensation of pain and see it just as it is.

After doing this dozens of times your view on pain seems to dramatically shift. You have seen through a lot of pure illusion by just surrendering and bringing yourself to the end and what it will leave you with is this great sense of groundedness.

I attribute most of my gains that I have made so far in very long and very intense strong determination sittings. I hope i could inspire you guys, let me know what you think of it? Something to try, or maybe a little to harsh for you? A little to direct?

For me personally I found a lot of beauty in this very simple task.

I found the Alan Watts analogy in this video. Highly inspirational for me. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Arik
typos

[Thomas]

That is very relatable.

I'm bought into the idea of nothingness (which is already a thing if You make an idea of it) from OSHO's books and every time at the beginning of meditating session (strong determination sitting if You will) my mind is like a part of an atom, constantly moving in all directions, I have all that concepts of my ankles touching the ground inducing very painful, uncomfrotable feeling I can sense even before starting. I have a concept about what will happen to my body, what I will feel and how big Resistance I will feel against it.

The more I sit, the harder those thoughts are hitting me until I reach a point of submission, letting go of an idea that I AM, I FEEL, I HAVE A MIND AND THOUGHTS. There is noone to feel the pain. There is no mind to start thought process.

What happens I cannot fully describe.
Think of it as "I" no longer exists.
The mind is off. Thoughts are off.

That kind of insight is short in terms of time, but is like a touch of the eternity.

Plus after the session going back into normal standing possition takes me good 3 minutes, because of the pain I feel, but how hard I laugh doing it is remarkable - I have no idea why I'm laughing, someone please tell me

Edited February 21, 2016 by Thomas

[Azrael]

If I sit for 120 minutes doing a strong determination sitting I need a good minute just to get my legs untangled and then slowly standing up. I also experience laughing sometimes but what for me is even more remarkable is that for a good few minutes my mind is totally off. No thoughts, no nothing, the weirdest feeling I can think of. 

And also sitting comfortably after the sit feels like heaven. Everything that I have experienced in comparison to this practice is not really serious pain because with strong determination you put the pain on yourself, you keep sitting in pain and are accepting not to know when it stops. This breaks me completely.

Love it

[Electron]

@Arik I need to try it. I tried it before but always gave up as soon as I felt excruciating pain saying to myself that I shouldn't go this much hard on myself. I have been practicing mindfulness meditation ever since for 60 minutes every day. I realized too, that it was just the intense level of prejudices and interpretations I have had for every bit of inconvenience that messed up the sittings. I literally imagined all kinds of insects doing whatever they please and associate those pictures to every single itch I felt. I think I have been a pussy in the face of pain a lot of time. Thats the reason I switched techniques. I will try though (thanks to you) to do the sittings again and not give in to the interpretations. 

 

[Azrael]

@Sigma Sounds like a plan. Don't go to hard one yourself though. One needs some time to understand how to go about the technique. Personally, I failed a lot practicing strong determination sitting in the beginning and when I'm pushing the limit I always fail a couple of times.

But what is going to happen is that your relationship to pain will completely shift and after a few sits you begin to feel a strange sense that nothing can really harm you. I always had this feeling especially in the beginning for a few weeks. I think it is the result of purging so much bullshit belief about pain.

Another very interesting thing is that you actually transcend a certain time span after some practice. Meaning, that if you sit 20-30 times for 60 minutes without moving you will not feel much pain anymore in future sittings in that time span. Just when you go further you have to transcend this again. 

I love it, it shoots my meditation through the top!

[Markus]

Inspiring. I wish I could practice sds. Too bad I have some medial knee pain right now and can't really take any cross-legged posture without sharp knee pain, even with tons of padding. I must be twisting the medial meniscus by compensating for lack of hip rotation with the knee moving sideways (which it never should), don't really know what to do other than to do stretches for external hip rotation and give the knees some rest. The "seiza bench" I made by putting two thick pillows on each side and a plank to sit on across them must've fucked up my knees worse than they were before.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Markus

[Joel Trinidad]

21 hours ago, Arik said:

Ever since Leo did his "Do Nothing" and "Strong Determination Sitting" videos I practiced these techniques very rigorously and I attribute fast spiritual gains especially to strong determination sittings. In the beginning I was kind of shocked of how direct this method is in releasing illusion. I just recently found an great analogy that explains especially why such a technique can bring you so much clarity so fast.

In an Alan Watts Lecture he mentioned that he has looked into the "act of torture" and makes the point that the worst part of torture is the beginning. Because in the beginning the victim is full of all his illusions and dramas. As the torture proceeds the victim over time seems to get in this drunken masochistic state in which he actually starts to get pleasure out of the pain.

I find this analogy kind of useful to explain what happens in strong determination sittings. You start off basically with all of your beliefs and are just taken through the rudest kinds of pains 'till there is nothing left then plain it. I personally found that there is a state in these sittings in which you completely surrender to the pain, you just give up and take it all in. You completely accept that you don't know when it'll stop, you accept the roughness of the sensation of pain and see it just as it is.

After doing this dozens of times your view on pain seems to dramatically shift. You have seen through a lot of pure illusion by just surrendering and bringing yourself to the end and what it will leave you with is this great sense of groundedness.

I attribute most of my gains that I have made so far in very long and very intense strong determination sittings. I hope i could inspire you guys, let me know what you think of it? Something to try, or maybe a little to harsh for you? A little do direct?

For me personally I found a lot of beauty in this very simple task.

I found the Alan Watts analogy in this video. Highly inspirational for me. 

Arik

Thanks to this brilliant explanation of your experience, now I know I'm not alone. I'm fascinated with Strong Determination Sitting with the Do Nothing technique. I've been doing this for 3 months now and keep going deeper with it. 1hour and 30min every day is my habit, my goal is to reach a 2hour daily sit. My question is: Could ''Do Nothing" and "SDS" be a path to Enlightenment?

Any advice, always appreciated.

- Joel

[Azrael]

Just now, Markus said:

Too bad I have some medial knee pain right now and can't really take any cross-legged posture without sharp knee pain, even with tons of padding.

Ahh, that's bad. Safety first in any case. I had knee pains when I deliberately wanted to sit in a half lotus but wasn't ready yet. However, this pain didn't last too long and I found the Burmese posture is working fine with me.

What you could try is sitting in a chair, very erect and not lean against the backrest. But be careful, it is always better to do this in the best state of mental and physical health you can be in because it'll take everything apart from you.

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Joel Trinidad said:

My question is: Could ''Do Nothing" and "SDS" be a path to Enlightenment?

Oh yes, Shinzen Young - the meditation teacher Leo has these techniques from - sees strong determination sittings as the maybe quickest way to enlightenment because of the directness of the technique. Check out this video in which he explains it a little bit.

Stay dedicated, I found these techniques to be highly effective and especially strong determinations sits can - in my experience - lead to immense relaxation and concentration throughout the day that are just beautiful to have. You can actually feel how the shit is purging out of your system.

I do a 60 minutes strong determination sitting every day combined with the "Do Nothing" technique or a self-inquiry / contemplating death. On good evenings I try to push my limits and so far I'm able to do 120 minutes, but still with a lot of pain. I'm working to get better and better at this. 

Cheers to you,

[Markus]

@Arik Yes, the thing about the chair is that sitting properly in it requires conscious effort, whereas the cross-legged postures naturally keep the spine straight. I sometimes feel hatred for Western culture for coming up with the damned chair, responsible for significant loss of hip range of motion, as well as a lot of back and neck pain. 

[JKG]

17 minutes ago, Arik said:

do a 60 minutes strong determination sitting every day combined with the "Do Nothing" technique or a self-inquiry / contemplating death. On good evenings I try to push my limits and so far I'm able to do 120 minutes, but still with a lot of pain. I'm working to get better and better at this. 

The only thing that really bothers me is that its so boring and uncomfortable. I dont really feel a lot of pain, only sometimes at the end of a 2h strong determination sit in my knees.

I don't sit cross legged, it hate that. I sit this way:

[Joel Trinidad]

1 hour ago, Arik said:

Oh yes, Shinzen Young - the meditation teacher Leo has these techniques from - sees strong determination sittings as the maybe quickest way to enlightenment because of the directness of the technique. Check out this video in which he explains it a little bit.

Stay dedicated, I found these techniques to be highly effective and especially strong determinations sits can - in my experience - lead to immense relaxation and concentration throughout the day that are just beautiful to have. You can actually feel how the shit is purging out of your system.

I do a 60 minutes strong determination sitting every day combined with the "Do Nothing" technique or a self-inquiry / contemplating death. On good evenings I try to push my limits and so far I'm able to do 120 minutes, but still with a lot of pain. I'm working to get better and better at this. 

Cheers to you,

Have you found yourself going back to childhood memories and senses? I have. A lot of garbage from past years is starting to come up, but very strange how I can now see it for what it is and peace with it, ending up feeling lighter... Do you think this might be the "purging" process Leo talks about?

Thank you for your response.

- Joel

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Markus said:

Inspiring. I wish I could practice sds. Too bad I have some medial knee pain right now and can't really take any cross-legged posture without sharp knee pain

You can do strong determination sitting in a chair, while standing, or reclining. The posture isn't important. The important part is that you don't move for a long time and face the pain of that head-on.

[Azrael]

On 21.2.2016 at 9:40 PM, Joel Trinidad said:

Have you found yourself going back to childhood memories and senses?

I occasionally have meditations in which this happens very directly. Meaning, that I see flashes of memories (very vivid) or hear voices from my friends and family. I have this on a daily basis but just as normal thoughts and as I described sometimes in great visual or auditory detail in meditations (very often late at night when I'm merging with the hypnagogic state). This is perfectly normal and yes it's part of the purging Leo talks about.

The shit get processed and needs to go out of your brain - so it takes the route of thoughts and emotions. Just watch and enjoy the show as if you would sit in a big cinema all alone seeing your life in 16k right in front of you. If you develop this kind of perspective over time everything seems to be just marvelous to experience. 

Cheers

[Emerald]

On February 20, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Arik said:

Ever since Leo did his "Do Nothing" and "Strong Determination Sitting" videos I practiced these techniques very rigorously and I attribute fast spiritual gains especially to strong determination sittings. In the beginning I was kind of shocked of how direct this method is in releasing illusion. I just recently found an great analogy that explains especially why such a technique can bring you so much clarity so fast.

In an Alan Watts Lecture he mentioned that he has looked into the "act of torture" and makes the point that the worst part of torture is the beginning. Because in the beginning the victim is full of all his illusions and dramas. As the torture proceeds the victim over time seems to get in this drunken masochistic state in which he actually starts to get pleasure out of the pain.

I find this analogy kind of useful to explain what happens in strong determination sittings. You start off basically with all of your beliefs and are just taken through the rudest kinds of pains 'till there is nothing left then plain it. I personally found that there is a state in these sittings in which you completely surrender to the pain, you just give up and take it all in. You completely accept that you don't know when it'll stop, you accept the roughness of the sensation of pain and see it just as it is.

After doing this dozens of times your view on pain seems to dramatically shift. You have seen through a lot of pure illusion by just surrendering and bringing yourself to the end and what it will leave you with is this great sense of groundedness.

I attribute most of my gains that I have made so far in very long and very intense strong determination sittings. I hope i could inspire you guys, let me know what you think of it? Something to try, or maybe a little to harsh for you? A little to direct?

For me personally I found a lot of beauty in this very simple task.

I found the Alan Watts analogy in this video. Highly inspirational for me. 

I was doing Strong Determination sits for a little while. I would do them for an hour at a time. Shinzen Young described them as being similar to being in labor, and (being a mother of two) I can totally see the correlation emotional intensity-wise and cycle-wise. The thing that it revealed to me is how my thoughts "scream" urges at me to stop doing what I'm doing. It's not me who wants to stop but my subtler thoughts are imploring me and 'yelling' at me to change positions. But then focusing on the sensation and becoming aware of the thought makes it clear that pain is just another phenomenon within the field of awareness. Separating the pain, the emotions, and the thoughts is necessary to get through the process; so it really does make you more aware. Then there is a release. Then it comes again more intense and the process is repeated. 

[Joel Trinidad]

12 hours ago, Arik said:

I occasionally have meditations in which this happens very directly. Meaning, that I see flashes of memories (very vivid) or hear voices from my friends and family. I have this on a daily basis but just as normal thoughts and as I described sometimes in great visual or auditory detail in meditations (very often late at night when I'm merging with the hypnagogic state). This is perfectly normal and yes it's part of the purging Leo talks about.

The shit get processed and needs to go out of your brain - so it takes the route of thoughts and emotions. Just watch and enjoy the show as if you would sit in a big cinema all alone seeing your life in 16k right in front of you. If you develop this kind of perspective over time everything seems to be just marvelous to experience. 

Cheers

Great answer! haha.

Thank you.

- Joel