Enlightened Beings Behind Anonymous?

[Scholar]

I have never really taken Anonymous (the hacker group) serious, but I have just watched a very interesting video, where the speaker is mentioning enlightenment, non-duality and meditation. 

@2:20 & @11:30

I really did not expect to hear any of this from a group like Anonymous. There is no doubt that they are spiritual, and the fact that they seem to be highly rational aswell tells me that they are most likely at stage Yellow (Spiral Dynamics). Of course we don't know who and how many people are behind this, but imagine a fully enlightened being sitting at a computer and hacking for the good of planet earth. Quite a funny picture.

They are addressing future generations, so I would assume that their systemic analysis of the state of the world lead them to the conclusion that at our current stage we do not have a chance to change. It doesn't seem very likely to me that they are some new age hippies. But who knows, it's really hard to tell with just a video. Not sure how Anonymous has changed throughout the years, but weren't they a highly illegal hacker group that basicly exposed information to the public? How did they go from that to advertising meditation?

What makes me sceptical is the entire elite vs rest of the world plotline. From my current point of view the world is a little more grey than that, and not as much of a conspiracy. But maybe I'm wrong and misinformed? 

 

But maybe it's a self-actualized person? What are your thoughts?

I wasn't even aware of this video... they are using excerpts from the Samadhi movie. It seems like they are trying to get it closer to mainstream culture? Imagine someone like Leo sitting there are editing a Anonymous video.

[Huginn]

@ScholarThis seems like the right direction to take on their part. They know that the real power struggle is within people's minds and the information exchange between them

However, it only 'seems' like the right direction. This is something I think about a lot in connection with my purpose. I really want to raise awareness of the power imbalances of information exchange that still exist. We made the Internet, but the way we communicate has ways to go still, and needs to evolve to really empower each human being. I've surmised this change can only happen with raised awareness/consciousness in order to become aware of how information affects us and how the information we put out there affects others.

Notice the effects of that Anonymous video above. They talk about meditation and self-awareness, but the frame in which it is mentioned indicates War: "We are the oppressed, THEY are the enemy. We must FIGHT back. We do not forget, and we do not forgive." Maybe this kind of negative motivation is what works to get people moving: "AAh GRR must go meditate to show 'em!". I have my doubts however. The "We vs. Them" mentality. the division and the unwillingness to forgive and the inability to see Them as evil human beings and not as anything other than a personal threat. That low consciousness mentality itself is going to perpetuate the War. You can be doing half-assed meditation and no real self-inquiry and contemplation and still be left with that mentality. It's this very strong desire for power that motivates such a person. It's not going to cease just like that when power is gained. In essence, that person will become the Them.

So, to compare them to @Leo Gura. Leo uses positive motivation. He's offering you the good, happy, inspired life. The focus is on you. You're the "evil one". Well, he tells you negative things about our culture etc., but the overall impression is that you are responsible and must develop yourself first. I believe that is a better approach.

I'll end with this. I'm an InfoSec guy. Essentially the whole InfoSec field (Hacking, Digital Forensics, Information Warfare, Psychological Warfare etc.) is about war and conflict, gaining advantage, defense and attack. When trying to come up with my values some time ago, I actually listed "power", in the sense of "power over others/opposition". With serious self-inquiry, I removed it and added "love", in the sense oneness, cooperation etc. Now the fact that the InfoSec field exists solely due to human conflict and power struggle makes it hard to align with my values. Being in that environment feels as though it's wearing me down, getting me to think thoughts of the world as a dark place. I've tried to come up with a better picture of the field to keep in my mind, like not making the threat personal, but rather as some "evil" or "immaturity" possessing the adversary. But it seems rather hard to maintain. I've thought "should I change to a more loving field?", but then I say "should the antelope bare its neck to the lion?". To live a high consciousness life, do you need to drop all your weapons and defenses? To turn the other cheek all the time? Well, that's how "evil" wins. I guess I'll just need to take care to fight right and try not to let the conflict get to me somehow. It seems Ghandi was a fine information warrior.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Huginn

[Scholar]

On 8.9.2017 at 8:54 PM, Huginn said:

@ScholarThis seems like the right direction to take on their part. They know that the real power struggle is within people's minds and the information exchange between them

However, it only 'seems' like the right direction. This is something I think about a lot in connection with my purpose. I really want to raise awareness of the power imbalances of information exchange that still exist. We made the Internet, but the way we communicate has ways to go still, and needs to evolve to really empower each human being. I've surmised this change can only happen with raised awareness/consciousness in order to become aware of how information affects us and how the information we put out there affects others.

Notice the effects of that Anonymous video above. They talk about meditation and self-awareness, but the frame in which it is mentioned indicates War: "We are the oppressed, THEY are the enemy. We must FIGHT back. We do not forget, and we do not forgive." Maybe this kind of negative motivation is what works to get people moving: "AAh GRR must go meditate to show 'em!". I have my doubts however. The "We vs. Them" mentality. the division and the unwillingness to forgive and the inability to see Them as evil human beings and not as anything other than a personal threat. That low consciousness mentality itself is going to perpetuate the War. You can be doing half-assed meditation and no real self-inquiry and contemplation and still be left with that mentality. It's this very strong desire for power that motivates such a person. It's not going to cease just like that when power is gained. In essence, that person will become the Them.

So, to compare them to @Leo Gura. Leo uses positive motivation. He's offering you the good, happy, inspired life. The focus is on you. You're the "evil one". Well, he tells you negative things about our culture etc., but the overall impression is that you are responsible and must develop yourself first. I believe that is a better approach.

I'll end with this. I'm an InfoSec guy. Essentially the whole InfoSec field (Hacking, Digital Forensics, Information Warfare, Psychological Warfare etc.) is about war and conflict, gaining advantage, defense and attack. When trying to come up with my values some time ago, I actually listed "power", in the sense of "power over others/opposition". With serious self-inquiry, I removed it and added "love", in the sense oneness, cooperation etc. Now the fact that the InfoSec field exists solely due to human conflict and power struggle makes it hard to align with my values. Being in that environment feels as though it's wearing me down, getting me to think thoughts of the world as a dark place. I've tried to come up with a better picture of the field to keep in my mind, like not making the threat personal, but rather as some "evil" or "immaturity" possessing the adversary. But it seems rather hard to maintain. I've thought "should I change to a more loving field?", but then I say "should the antelope bare its neck to the lion?". To live a high consciousness life, do you need to drop all your weapons and defenses? To turn the other cheek all the time? Well, that's how "evil" wins. I guess I'll just need to take care to fight right and try not to let the conflict get to me somehow. It seems Ghandi was a fine information warrior.

Yes, on further analysis I agree with you. I saw a video where they said "We do forgive, but we do not forget.", so I guess whoever made the video made some progress? 

About your trouble with values, maybe read up on some  Stoic Philosophy. Marcus Aurelius was a good example, he didn't like most humans, but he thought it was a human's duty to be social and help others, even if he didn't like them. Even though he fought for Rome, he seemed to be doing it for all of mankind. It's about reality. Someone is going to be emperor of rome, and no emperor will simply let foreign forces invade their country. If he didn't do the job, someone else would have done it, and he would have done it far worse than he did. In that way, being a soldier might be the better choice in creating harmony in this world than being a monk, simply because you can do the job that someone ele would have done anyway, and you can do it right. Empathy is important, but it can cloud your judgement for what you truly desire. If it is harmony you desire, you will find that sometimes it's best to end life, so that other life can be spared. Even to live, you are constantly killing, murdering and annhiliating "enemies". You don't view them as enemies, but you are still killing them. The trillions of bacteria that need to be sacrificed simply so the machine you call yourself can continue existing. It's not really a war, it's life. There is no good, there is no evil, there are just differences in what we want. Some people want power, some people want happiness. Some people want to live in peace, some people want to live in excitement. The winners are the winners, the losers are the losers, that is reality. There is no evil corporation, there is just difference in perspective.

 

So, in the end it very much depends on what you want this world to be, and what you want your life to be. Whether you are enlightened or not, you will do what you want. What you want might simply change after losing your ego, but it will still be there. You might want more enlightenment, you might want peace, you might desire to desire nothing at all. Or you might want to murder, you might want to help others. The list goes on and on. So, first you have to be clear about what you want. In spiritual teachings, and this is something you should be aware of, the desired is often less about the state of others, but more about the state of yourself. You are not helping others to help others, you are helping others because you want to feel fulfilled, or because you feel unconditional love for them. So, if you desire to not hurt anyone ever, you will have to watch someone murder someone else. Because your desire to not hurt will be greater than the desire to help someone else. Or you might decide that you want to help, and doing that you will kill someone else to protect the innocent. It's simply a difference of desire, or as some people like to call it "morality".

Be clear about what you want, because you might regret giving everyone unconditional love if what you truly desire is harmony. The lion killing the antelope creates harmony within nature, but so does the antelope escaping the lion. We human like to mess around with harmony, thinking that if we just fix it, it will be so much better. Let's say we get all the lions seperated from all the antelopes. Well, now the antelopes will breed freely and the ecosystem might collapse. The lions will kill each other because they merely eat meat. 

The world is more complex than your desires, and because your desires are not clear, you might do exactly what you do not want. Do you think Adolf Hitler was evil? Do you think he wanted to see the world burn? No, he had a desire to make the world a better place, but he couldn't see reality for what it is, and so he did the exact opposite of what he wanted. Germany didn't became the Third Reich, it became ruins and ashes.

 

This is precisely what happens with lifes when they do not understand reality, and when the do not have a clear understanding of their desires. You have to understand that you never will be capable of making always the best decision, that will lead you to what you desire. Sometimes you might hurt when hurt was unnecessary, sometimes you might love where love will lead to destruction. Inaction will seem the only way for you to keep going, and this is why you have this very principle in spiritual traditions. Jesus died in vain, creating more destruction than he could have possibly imagined, merely because of his naive world view. So did many others, monks are a very good example. But you see, they do nto desire what I desire. They desire peace of their own mind, even if it means the rest of the world has to suffer. There is nothing bad about them, they are just working against my goals. Life is very much like a game. We are playing against each other, unless we follow the same goals. You will not change this, it is a fundametnal principle of nature. Without the play, harmony would not exist.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Scholar

[Haumea]

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That low consciousness mentality itself is going to perpetuate the War. You can be doing half-assed meditation and no real self-inquiry and contemplation and still be left with that mentality.

Excellent observation.  Holding grudges is unhelpful to the spiritual person.

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Now the fact that the InfoSec field exists solely due to human conflict and power struggle makes it hard to align with my values. 

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 To live a high consciousness life, do you need to drop all your weapons and defenses? 

I think this will help you put things in perspective - it's a fascinating read.

"The Divine takes men as they are and uses men as His instruments even if they are not flawless in virtue, angelic, holy and pure. If they are of good will, if, to use the Biblical phrase, they are on the Lord’s side, that is enough for the work to be done."

Edited September 9, 2017 by Haumea

[LaucherJunge]

Anonymous is just a group of many many individuals and groups. They work on different projects and have different views on the world just the core is the same "we are legion we don't forget we don't forgive we are anonymous".
surely there are some spiritual people in anonymous but there are most likely more atheists. The videos of them you see around youtube are usually just made by one or a few individuals. The large projects they have is their real power but i don't think there is one that has much to do with spirituality.
 

[Huginn]

@Scholar, yes forgiving does sound more enlightened. Thanks for your insight. What I want would be in accordance with my values: Truth, Love and the cooperation of humanity to reach its fullest potential in health, consciousness and so on. War and conflict seems to undermine that peaceful state of affairs. I can see from a high consciousness perspective how it is necessary though for harmony, as you say. My thought is that it's just difficult for me to keep up that perspective when I'm engaged in conflict most of the time, thinking what the adversary would do, defending, attacking etc. I mean, I'm just doing InfoSec research at the moment, but still this militaristic kind of thinking is necessary there. My guess is that I need to grow more spiritually to maintain my perspective and not fall into the "the world is dark and gloomy" kind of mentality.

@Haumea, enlightening read, thanks. I like the perspective of humanity as evolving, and while our psychology is yet imperfect there must be war and conflict at one time or another. The trick is to be on the side that is more likely to nurture this ongoing evolution.

[pluto]

The more connected you are the more you are able to think critically and universally. If you know what i mean.

You don't necessarily have to be Enlightened, just merely connected.

Edited September 11, 2017 by pluto