Meditating To Gross Distractions - Shit!

[Voyager]

Hi friends,

I've been getting down with meditation for a year now, and Leo's latest videos prompted me to review all my behaviors and re strategize.

I downloaded "The Mind illuminated" which within the free sample, has the "stages" of meditation.

Something caught my attention and prompted an "oh shit" moment. 

I believe I have been meditating regularly on gross distraction, rather than the breath. As there are regularly birds outside my window, I tend to focus my attention on them (or some other relaxing sounds) instead of my breath. It felt like meditation to me, and certainly made my mind very calm, but according to these stages, this is not the way. 

Stage 4: Continuous attention and overcoming gross distraction and strong dullness
You can stay focused on the breath more or less continuously, but the attention still shifts rapidly back and forth between the breath and various distractions. Whenever a distraction becomes the primary focus of your attention, it pushes the meditation object into the background. This is called gross distraction.

As the breath is the only constant, I can understand the logic behind using the breath, and I intend on stopping using gross distractions as meditation objects going forward. 

Has anyone else been doing this in error?

[Dodo]

21 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Hi friends,

I've been getting down with meditation for a year now, and Leo's latest videos prompted me to review all my behaviors and re strategize.

I downloaded "The Mind illuminated" which within the free sample, has the "stages" of meditation.

Something caught my attention and prompted an "oh shit" moment. 

I believe I have been meditating regularly on gross distraction, rather than the breath. As there are regularly birds outside my window, I tend to focus my attention on them (or some other relaxing sounds) instead of my breath. It felt like meditation to me, and certainly made my mind very calm, but according to these stages, this is not the way. 

Stage 4: Continuous attention and overcoming gross distraction and strong dullness
You can stay focused on the breath more or less continuously, but the attention still shifts rapidly back and forth between the breath and various distractions. Whenever a distraction becomes the primary focus of your attention, it pushes the meditation object into the background. This is called gross distraction.

As the breath is the only constant, I can understand the logic behind using the breath, and I intend on stopping using gross distractions as meditation objects going forward. 

Has anyone else been doing this in error?

Hi Voyager. Nice read, I also found the how to learn video VERY transformational. In fact just second before I read this I was writing down how will my behavior change from knowing there is no doer / no free will (I recommend btw). 

I want to point out that breath is not the only constant. The bigger constant in your experience, which will be with you even after death is the Isness / Being. In your dreams you do not breathe yet you still are, so you can even do this meditation in your dreams - in any situation.

That's why Rupert Spira suggests the question "Am I aware" is the pathless path. It's always the case, now to go deeper into recognition of that. It's boundless.

I think we confuse attention with awareness. As Mooji says, attention is our most intimate tool, so intimate that where it goes, it feels like we go.

But ISness, Being, Aliveness is always here now and is who we are. It's unmoving, unchanging, shapeless, formless ISness. It's the knowing of isness. Not even that, it just is isness and that isness is known. Hold attention in that knowing no matter what arises.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Dodo

[Erlend K]

Using sounds as your meditation object is a valid form of meditation. For beginners using the breath id usually recomended by most meditation masters, tho. Do you still experience mindwandering, or is your attention fairly stable? When your attention moves to the sounds, do your attention on the breath completely dissapear? If so, its technicaly forgetting and not a gross distraction. 

If you follow the tmi system, you should not worry about gross distractions untill you reach the point where you can sit 45 min, and pretty much never lose attention of the breath (no mind wandering or forgetting). 

For an unexperienced meditator, using your being/Isness as a meditation object will result in co stant mindwandering and forgetting. You will not achieve much that way. I think you will make faster progress if you start out using breath as your primary meditation object, at least until you reach access consentration. 

[Shin]

So funny that this post is made the second day I'm starting to get back to 2 hours meditation a day AND that I was thinking the same thing.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Shin

[Gabriel Antonio]

You can be aware of your breath regardless of any external stimuli. It is actually a good thing for practicing concentration. 

Have you ever done body scans? It is like this: you go from head to toe, and you scan your WHOLE body as if it were an antivirus. If there is any uncomfortable sensation, don't place so much attention on it. Recognize that it is unpleasant but keep scanning your body. If, on the other hand, you're clinging to a certain sensation, you also drop that. In a way, you become "indifferent" (a better word is equanomous) to all sensations you have. 

3 hours ago, Dodo said:

The bigger constant in your experience

YES!

 

48 minutes ago, Erlend K said:

you can sit 45 min, and pretty much never lose attention of the breath (no mind wandering or forgetting). 

HAHAHA! Good luck with that! Focusing on the breath is really stage 1 of meditation. Do you realize you have your whole body to explore? The only thing you need is a little bit of concentration and BAM! You build momentum. 

[Erlend K]

56 minutes ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

HAHAHA! Good luck with that! Focusing on the breath is really stage 1 of meditation. Do you realize you have your whole body to explore? The only thing you need is a little bit of concentration and BAM! You build momentum. 

It's not really that hard to achieve if you practice in an intelligent, systematic way. Never loosing attention of the breath means you are at stage 4 in the tmi system. It took me about 4-5 months to reach this level, using the tmi methodology. Many more talented/dilligent meditators reach this level much faster than I did.

Anapanasati can be used as an intro practice, but is also a powerful practice in its own right. It is all you need to access the Jhanas, Samadhi and Steeam Entry. 

[Gabriel Antonio]

7 hours ago, Erlend K said:

It's not really that hard to achieve if you practice in an intelligent, systematic way. Never loosing attention of the breath means you are at stage 4 in the tmi system. It took me about 4-5 months to reach this level, using the tmi methodology. Many more talented/dilligent meditators reach this level much faster than I did.

Anapanasati can be used as an intro practice, but is also a powerful practice in its own right. It is all you need to access the Jhanas, Samadhi and Steeam Entry. 

I think it can be a huge distraction. It is like staying in the beginner's level of a foreign language. Focusing on the breath is NOT meditation itself. Grammar is NOT the foreign language.

Awareness of breath is a concentration exercise. Concentration is like the lid of a pan. It accelerates the process, but it is worthless by itself. 

There's more to do, to discover. Have you ever thought of the flux of your blood? Now, imagine if you could really contemplate that. Really feel in. It can be as real as a flowing river. This is the development of the mindfulness muscle. 

 

The breath is a tool.

There are many other tools! I agree: the breath is the number 1. But it is okay to use other ways to go to Rome. 

 

[Voyager]

@Erlend K

9 hours ago, Erlend K said:

Do you still experience mindwandering, or is your attention fairly stable? When your attention moves to the sounds, do your attention on the breath completely dissapear? If so, its technicaly forgetting and not a gross distraction.

It depends on the day how stable my attention is, but there's usually a fair bit of mind wandering involved. I would probably only get a few minute blocks of solid concentration at a time before I forget about the meditation object (breath or birds etc). My focus tends to shift every so often to the distraction that is most prevalent. For example, if the fridge starts humming I may focus my attention there for 5 minutes then move to the air conditioner for 5 minutes. Thinking about it, breath attention is usually occurring on the inhale and distraction attention on the full exhale. (during the silence between breaths). There's definitely a lot of forgetting going on in general. However the main concern was not so much about being in Stage 4 and having "gross distractions" occur, but rather I think i'm using the wrong meditation object in the beginning (things other than breath). 

I'll follow the TMI like you did and just focus on breath for a while, even though I do love to focus my attention on them birds!

[Voyager]

9 hours ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

Have you ever done body scans? It is like this: you go from head to toe, and you scan your WHOLE body as if it were an antivirus. If there is any uncomfortable sensation, don't place so much attention on it. Recognize that it is unpleasant but keep scanning your body. If, on the other hand, you're clinging to a certain sensation, you also drop that. In a way, you become "indifferent" (a better word is equanomous) to all sensations you have. 

Not really man, I've heard of it but rarely tried it.

Although as i'm working on my EQ I'm learning how to feel into emotions when they arise which is probably the most 'body aware' that I've been.

Would you highly recommend adding this to a daily practice? How long would you usually scan for?

[Voyager]

12 hours ago, Dodo said:

In fact just second before I read this I was writing down how will my behavior change from knowing there is no doer / no free will (I recommend btw). 

Hi Dodo, would you be willing to share with me a behavior or two from your list? I'm curious of some examples for this. 

[Leo Gura]

@Voyager There are many different ways to meditate. Focusing exclusively on the breath is just one way. That practice of focusing on the breath is a concentration-oriented technique, which is why it has to be done very strictly to avoid distraction.

But more general mindfulness meditation doesn't require that narrow of a focus.

There are many ways to skin the same cat.

[Gabriel Antonio]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

Not really man, I've heard of it but rarely tried it.

Although as i'm working on my EQ I'm learning how to feel into emotions when they arise which is probably the most 'body aware' that I've been.

Would you highly recommend adding this to a daily practice? How long would you usually scan for?

great! body awareness has a lot to do with feeling emotions again. when I started doing, I realized that I couldn't feel my stomach area. But with consistent practice, I am now able to feel into this area. As a consequence, I have been feeling a lot of emotions which I had forgotten I had. 

I do very short sessions. I do some breathing exercises (the one you interrupt the flow of air in one nostril); then I do the body scan for about 2 minutes. 

Meditation has a lot to do with quality. It does not have to be slow. (But it is better if it is)

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

Hi Dodo, would you be willing to share with me a behavior or two from your list? I'm curious of some examples for this. 

Well for example that there would be no room for judging the happening. Even if judging appears, no judging on top of that should appear that is judging the judging. If that makes sense  

Also not to take things personally. It's like taking an earthquake personally. It may be shitty to experience the earthquake, but it's not anything personal, it's just a happening. 

My list consists of these kinds of things. 

[Voyager]

@Leo Gura Hmm. So perhaps listening to birds isn't so invalid a technique for meditation after all? Would you say that my technique for meditation up until now (based on using a variety of meditation objects in one sitting) would then be mindfulness meditation? Or just a half arsed concentration practice?  

[Voyager]

@Dodo Ah ok. Surrendering fully to all experience as it unfolds without any position taking...man...So many years work lie ahead! Just need to get some basic shit down first. Solid meditation practice and emotional intelligence will be a great start.