Buddhism & Kindness/compassion

[The White Belt]

Why do you believe that Buddhism has such an emphasis on kindness and compassion to others? 

Most of the noble eight-fold path is based around this.

I'm reading a book by Thich Naht Hanh and he talks a lot about compassionately listening to others and speaking nicely to them.

Is there anything else in Buddhism that talks specifically about why it's important on the way to enlightenment, and why do you personally think so?

[LaucherJunge]

I think compassion is actual love which is very rare almost as rare as enlightenment. Most people talking about compassion are just passionate. Real compassion leads you to want the absolute best for something without thinking about yourself, basically passion without an ego intention behind it.
Passion is very ugly in comparison to compassion. 
The reason it is so important for enlightenment is because it is requiering atleast partial egolessness to be really compassionate. Egolessness is great if it comes to produce enlightenment experiences or even more.

[Leo Gura]

Because people are too weak to become enlightened, they are taught compassion instead. It's much sweeter-sounding than facing the truth of absolute relativity.

It's putting the cart before the horse. Become enlightened and then compassion will come naturally. Without enlightenment, all your efforts at compassion will be skin deep. The ego cannot truly be compassionate.

Note: The Buddha himself never practiced compassion. He practiced yoga, self-inquiry, and mindfulness. His compassion was the fruit of self-annihilation.

A lot of so-called "compassionate" people in the world who are actually Devils. George Bush was supposed to be a "compassionate conservative". How many people were killed in Iraq? Hundreds of thousands. That's what happens when ignorant people try to be "compassionate."

[Erlend K]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because people are too weak to become enlightened, they are taught compassion instead. It's much sweeter-sounding than facing the truth of absolute relativity.

It's putting the cart before the horse. Become enlightened and then compassion will come naturally. Without enlightenment, all your efforts at compassion will be skin deep. The ego cannot truly be compassionate.

 

I think pro-social behavior and attitudes (kindness, compassion, generosity and gratitude), just like wisdom, mindfulness and concentration, are not only the results of awakening, but also skills to be consciously cultivated as part of the journey. These skills will not be perfected until awakening, but still needs to be cultivated to a certain point for awakening to be plausible.

It's true the Buddha himself didn't practice compassion as part of his journey to enlightenment. He practiced samatha/jhanas , yoga and asceticism, which were the main spiritual practices in India at his time. There are, however, good reasons why he didn't advice his students to copy this path. These common practices often resulted in profound mystical experiences, but not to any significant, permanent changes. The Buddha reached awakening by coincident/luck, combined with having an unusual talent for meditation (supposedly, he mastered each Jhana faster than any of his peers and surpassed all the Jhana masters he studied under in short time)

According to the Sutras: The Buddha considered pro-social behavior and attitudes as a foundation of the most reliable path to awakening. In his later, mature teachings, after decades of teaching/mentoring experience, and after gaining a solid understanding of how different practices worked for the thousands of students he had guided, he kept increasing the focus put on compassion. He even declared compassion as one of the two "wings of the dharma", alongside wisdom. His answer to examples like the "compassion" of George Bush is: the two wings of wisdom and compassion have to be balanced. If one wing is overdeveloped compared to the other, the "Bird of Dharma" will not fly. Pro-social attitudes constitute three of the four Brahma Viharas. When aspiring practitioners ask the Buddha which practice they should start with his typical answer was the practice of generosity.

As one progress towards stream entry, one has to pass through the dukkha nanas. Practitioners following mechanical/technique-focused paths, downplaying the importance of compassion, often have to suffer through prolonged, painful dukkha nanas. Many give up the path at this stage. Some even commit suicide because they can't handle it. On the other hand, practitioners from the Tibetan schools, which heavily focuses on compassion, rarely report problems with dukha nanas.

One typical explanation given for why these practices are so central is that without them "spiritual" practices tends to be subtly ego-based and ego-reinforcing. The practice becomes a tool for serving the interests of the Self: A pursuit for my Self's enlightenment/equanimity/mystical experiences, so that my Self will be enhanced. Focusing on other people tend to have the opposite effect: It reinforces feelings of interconnection and weakens the sense of a seperate Self. Next time you act with compassion or freely give away something, try to be mindful of how it feels. You will most likely notice a mild, warm feeling of connectedness, and a subtle temporary weakening of the sense of Self.

[Leo Gura]

@Erlend K Yes, what you say has some truth to it.

Then again, people just get lost in the whole "acting compassionate" game and never reach the true levels of compassion possible post-enlightenment.

Either direction you walk, there are traps.

[The White Belt]

@Leo Gura It seems to simplistic to say this. 

On one hand I do know what you mean. Millions after millions of people take the moralistic teachings of their religions and leave out all of the wisdom, insight, consciousness and enlightenment-based teachings, but with Buddhism the loving-kindness and compassion teachings are so very central. 

I don't know, but the Buddha himself seemed like such an intelligent person, with a real desire for people to awaken and not just philosophize about it, so I doubt he'll put many things in there for you to hide away from awakening, throwing no bones for people and saying 'if you don't want liberation, just be a kind person'. Why would he put the fat trimmings right in the meat of the teachings? Just doesn't add up.

[Nahm]

@The White Belt The point, ultimately, is to see the truth and thus be the 'light'. You can shit on people everyday. You can steal from and manipulate people easily. But then, you'll have much more you'll need to let go of. It's just simpler and easier to remain empty. 

[RichardY]

What exactly is compassion? Looking at the etymology it means to "suffer with". But, why would you want to know someones suffering or pain, is that even possible. Perhaps to have compassion for one, is to have compassion for all. But to not have it and act like you do, is apocalyptic, maybe like that movie "The Seventh Sign".

[Nexeternity]

@Leo Gura @The White Belt

I think trying to put one as a priority over the other is a trap.

The work should create change in both yourself and others around you simultaneously, as a system.

Trying to save yourself and forgetting the suffering of others or save the world and not working on yourself are two false choices that limit the potential transformation to both the person and the sorrounding community.  

So basically its both, not either/or, not prioritizing one over the other.

[Leo Gura]

@Nexeternity If you prioritize compassion over truth, you'll get into trouble, guaranteed.

It's not an either/or choice, and practicing compassion can be good, but to put it above existential truth is to put the cart before the horse. Compassion and truth are not at the same level. Truth trumps all. Because it's... well... true.

The most important cause of "evil" is lack of truth.

Practicing compassion is good. Just make sure you got your priorities straight.

[Nexeternity]

@Leo Gura   Ok touche.

Just wanted to argue against focusing on personal inner growth to the exclusion of helping others, or helping others to the exclusion of personal inner growth.

They feed off each other...  I think that limiting inner growth limits the help you can give to others and limiting the help you give to others also limits inner growth.

That they should go together and be balanced.

 

[Heart of Space]

When you are in a state of deep love for yourself and the world around you.  Compassion is literally effortless.  If you're consciously forcing it, it's not genuine.  None of this is consciously forced by the mind.  

[aEOf]

On 8/30/2017 at 3:37 AM, Leo Gura said:

Because people are too weak to become enlightened, they are taught compassion instead. It's much sweeter-sounding than facing the truth of absolute relativity.

It's putting the cart before the horse. Become enlightened and then compassion will come naturally. Without enlightenment, all your efforts at compassion will be skin deep. The ego cannot truly be compassionate.

Note: The Buddha himself never practiced compassion. He practiced yoga, self-inquiry, and mindfulness. His compassion was the fruit of self-annihilation.

A lot of so-called "compassionate" people in the world who are actually Devils. George Bush was supposed to be a "compassionate conservative". How many people were killed in Iraq? Hundreds of thousands. That's what happens when ignorant people try to be "compassionate."

That may be a potential hazard type thing about group retreats in general. May not mesh well with authenticity. I have to find some good ones that fit. I don't like being bullshitted. Solo retreats may be good cause one is only influenced by oneself. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by aEOf