A Question?

[Jhonny]

I am myself a black man. But if i was to hold a 2 year old white child or a 2 year old black child. I will enjoy and love the white child more. Now who has planted this in me society, parents,myself or is this something deeper??

[John Iverson]

Your thought... you believe that unconsciously... so now that is the you thinks you enjoy it

[Spiral]

Well I have noticed in my dorm, that people of color as well as guys from India. Are approached less and "need" to meet higher social standards, to really be apart of any of a none-Indian white group.

Now is that racist? idk, but it's something I've noticed. I don't wanna be one of those "omg systemic racism", but I get what they mean. 

So for instance we have this African guy that people really like because, he's hilarious. 

People who are less attractive also follow this trend

[Consept]

Hey man, fellow black man here lol 

A few years ago i really looked into what this subtle systemic racial preference/racism is about and where it originated from. Basically what your talking about is implicit racial bias, theres a test you can do called the harvard implicit bias test. Which basically tests peoples unconscious bias', not just on race but other factors, gender, disability etc, theres a separate test for each. Results wise what it tends to show is a huge majority of white people favour white people, which is to be expected but also has ramifications in the real world as most likely they will be the majority in the west, so most employers will be white, most writers, journalists etc etc. Thats not even taking into account that it would be harder for minorities to get jobs anyway. 

Whats also interesting about the test which speaks to your original point, is that more than half (not sure of numbers) of black people also are biased toward white people. You can take the test yourself here - https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

So what are the reasons for this? You have to get your head around that white people are the 'default' race, what i mean by that is they are the hero of the story, the main character etc. So just as a quick example, the program Friends is classed as a sitcom about 20 somethings in New York, if Friends had an all black cast it would be about black 20 somethings in New York and be seen as an 'ethnic' program. 

Other reasons are indoctrination from parents who may or may not have been even more unconsciously biased as the systemic racism may have been stronger for older generations. Schools play a part as you only ever hear about black people as slaves and servants in history rather than kings and queens which is what you hear about European history. This is despite that there are plenty of black kings and queens and empires, The Moors for example who ruled over Iberia in the middle ages (spain and portugal). The fact that you only know your ancestors to be slaves can have a very real detrimental affect on you. 

To be honest there are countless reasons but they are just all part of the system we currently living. For me it makes sense and i wouldnt say white people are even wrong for favouring other white people, we've all been indoctrinated to some extent, so i think really its about understanding that these are not necessarily truths, it isnt true that white people are inherently 'better' genetically than other races. Even if you feel that its about questioning that for yourself as a person of any race and coming to an actual conclusion. Also not being afraid of the question or of how it feels, i think these issues should not be shied away from as they will just fester and create more tension. 

 

 

 

[Emerald]

I was going to bring up the doll test and the implicit bias test, but someone beat me to it.

But I think what you're going through is similar in some respects to what I experienced as a woman in relation to being seen as the modifier on a person. So, white men are the only default people, and everyone else is seen as a modifier upon that default.

So, if I say, "A person walked into the gas station." most people are going to automatically imagine a young/middle aged white man.

Then everyone else is a type of person that you have to specify. Or if it's a woman, you have to specify that they're a woman because we're not conditioned to equate the term woman with person. But we are conditioned to equate the term man with the word person.

So, for men it's:

Person (White young/middle aged male)

Black person

Asian person

(fill in the blank ethnicity) person

old person (white old man... sometimes white old women)

etc.

For women it's:

Woman (White young female)

Black woman

Asian woman

etc.

So, there's a subtle brain washing that happens with our white defaultism that makes white people and men more relatable, as they are seen as the "every-man." This is also propped up by the language that we use, the media, and folkways of understanding things.

So, this whole thing effects everyone's psyche on a subtle level, to where anyone who isn't a white male has to identify with whiteness and maleness in order to be able to function and relate to various things in society. For example, I was always very masculine identified, and I could get into thought processes where I would actually confuse my gender for a moment. So, I'd be thinking about something that puzzled me and then I would think, "Maybe I could relate back to this more if I was female." Then I would realize, "OHHH! I AM female!!"

So, that might be why you feel more of an identification with white children. But I'm sure that this would go away when you actually have children. Right now, you just have a placeholder idea of a child in your mind. So, your sub-conscious is just projecting your idea of white children and black children, which is infected by social conditioning. But when you experience your child, all of your ideas and projections have to fall away because children are all so unique and really are all little complex people. This tends to get glossed over by people who haven't had children yet.

So, I would definitely keep examining yourself for these types of biases. But I'm sure that you will have very positive feelings toward your children, no matter what their race is.

 

[MasterNigel]

thats an interesting preference, i think you guys are over complicating this when it realy just calls for common sense. western civilization was built by white people, and the US is mostly white. So naturally the default is white just the same as the default in asia is asian, its just human nature like different schools of fish. People are the most effective in a community of their own kind, youl see the same with animals which we essentially are except for our ability to control our own minds.

[Consept]

10 hours ago, MasterNigel said:

thats an interesting preference, i think you guys are over complicating this when it realy just calls for common sense. western civilization was built by white people, and the US is mostly white. So naturally the default is white just the same as the default in asia is asian, its just human nature like different schools of fish. People are the most effective in a community of their own kind, youl see the same with animals which we essentially are except for our ability to control our own minds.

I think you're right the face of western civilization is white, you can take into account that the US, now a super power, was built with African slaves and immigrants, but i know that wasnt your point. So yes its likely that white people will be the default and favour other white at least sub consciously.

But actually if you look around the world due to colonisation, slavery etc etc the default around the world is actually white, so for example in many parts of Asia, Africa, South America, its seen as more attractive to be lighter, so much so that skin lightening products are big business. Also Indias caste system puts the lighter skinned people at the top. This is because the white beauty ideal has been exported successfully around the world, which leads to the doll experiment i posted in the my first post. 

Also another issue is that there was a lot of money spent on anti-black propaganda in the last century which was quite overt, im sure youve seen the cartoons, Jay-z also mentions it and uses it for his 'story of oj' music video. Apart from this there were posters, films, adverts etc etc all showing black people as less intelligent animals, it was even in the US constitution that black people are 3/5's of a human being whatever that means. Point is people grew up with these ideas not that long ago, these ideas would have been foundational ideas for people who then passed it on to their kids, white people believing theyre superior sub consciously and black people believing theyre inferior sub consciously, which then plays out in something like the harvard bias test. 

Could also be argued that this anti black propaganda still persists today, shows like cops, talk shows, etc is not matched on the other side by positive black role models. But anyway i think youre right to extent but you cant ignore the mountains of evidence that show there is something else going on there, it doesnt make sense that a black five year old kid would think black people are ugly without something else at play. Not saying its a conspiracy necessarily but definitely something we need to be aware of and not sweep under the rug by saying its just something that happens.

https://medium.com/school-of-doodle/a-history-of-blackface-and-anti-black-propaganda-in-american-cinema-and-television-b4db376b43f2

http://www.afrizap.com/en/skin-bleaching

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/01/dark-what-behind-india-s-obsession-skin-whitening

Edited August 29, 2017 by Consept

[MasterNigel]

I dont think the default around the world besides the west is white, they might have some kind of fetish for whites but that doesent mean they are. That fenominon as well as the kid video could just be a base level preference for lighter colors, their just kids maybe seeing a lighter skin doll evokes positive emotions in them. Why are most house interiors white? Its pleasant to look at. CNN being the libtard propaganda machine that they are is just trying to stir up racial conflicts where their isnt any. Anti black propaganda is long gone and its now switched to anti white propaganda, if you watch tv at all today youl know what im talking about. I see mostly positive black role models as the "all knowing wise guy" on tv, and the white guy portrayed as the "useless gimp with his balls in his girlfriends purse" its pretty cringe to watch actualy. This is why i dont use mainstream media anymore, anti black, anti white, anti this, anti that, their keeping you distracted and week. You ever wonder why the mainstream media mostly pushes liberal ideas? becouse liberal ideas generally lead to a week society that is more profitable. The media just puts you in the opposit way of enlightenment, it must be eliminated alltogether to live to your fullest potential. If theirs any political lesson to be learned here id say its that victimhood doesent get you anywhere in life. quit making excuses and control your destiny.  just my opinion...

[Consept]

1 hour ago, MasterNigel said:

I dont think the default around the world besides the west is white, they might have some kind of fetish for whites but that doesent mean they are. That fenominon as well as the kid video could just be a base level preference for lighter colors, their just kids maybe seeing a lighter skin doll evokes positive emotions in them. Why are most house interiors white? Its pleasant to look at. CNN being the libtard propaganda machine that they are is just trying to stir up racial conflicts where their isnt any. Anti black propaganda is long gone and its now switched to anti white propaganda, if you watch tv at all today youl know what im talking about. I see mostly positive black role models as the "all knowing wise guy" on tv, and the white guy portrayed as the "useless gimp with his balls in his girlfriends purse" its pretty cringe to watch actualy. This is why i dont use mainstream media anymore, anti black, anti white, anti this, anti that, their keeping you distracted and week. You ever wonder why the mainstream media mostly pushes liberal ideas? becouse liberal ideas generally lead to a week society that is more profitable. The media just puts you in the opposit way of enlightenment, it must be eliminated alltogether to live to your fullest potential. If theirs any political lesson to be learned here id say its that victimhood doesent get you anywhere in life. quit making excuses and control your destiny.  just my opinion...

Yeah i dont look at mainstream media anymore either, which is why i researched the issue for myself. Its amazing that even though i presented facts you still dismissed everything but this speaks to the point i was making, minorities have legitimate issues around being minorities but when the subject is brought up its just as quickly dismissed. So say you were an employer and one of your employees came to you with a legitimate problem around race, you would be, strictly judging from your posts, more likely be dismissive of their complaint as youll think they are playing the victim. Not saying youre necessarily wrong for thinking that, there are a lot of people that think that but then you extrapolate it out and it translates to a lot of minorities with concerns not being listened to. Whether you think they should be or not its obviously going to garner resentment by being dismissive of what are real issues for people. So this is where the problem really lies. 

On a personal level Id never blame this on me not getting anywhere in life, the question was asked and previously ive looked into it so answered, its not something i really focus on, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist

 

[MasterNigel]

What exactly are these problems? And what are some solutions of yours besides guilting white people? I know a conversation like this is kind of beneath the higher consiousness nature of self actualizing, but thers nothing wrong with an opinionated conversation now an then as long as we keep the big picture in mind: we are all one consciousness.

[Consept]

12 minutes ago, MasterNigel said:

What exactly are these problems? And what are some solutions of yours besides guilting white people? I know a conversation like this is kind of beneath the higher consiousness nature of self actualizing, but thers nothing wrong with an opinionated conversation now an then as long as we keep the big picture in mind: we are all one consciousness.

Ive kind of laid out the issues if youve been following what i was saying, but essentially its not really about guilting white people or victimizing black people. Its really just about raising awareness (as it usually is) of whats going on in terms of the system we live in, and also having an objective as possible conversation about whats going on without white people getting triggered and feeling guilty/angry or black people getting triggered and feeling like victims/angry. 

If i can give you a quick example in the US the 13th admendment states something like 'slavery is illegal except if the person is convicted of a crime', essentially meaning if youre in prison, legally you can be used as a slave. Now when you consider that many US prisons are privitised which means thry can sell the labour of the prisoners to other private companies. This means there is a financial incentive for prisons to lock as many people as possible (we all know how much of a driver capitalism is), this plays out in the fact that 25% of the worlds prison population are incarcerated in the US. 

So what happens if you have a system where there is a racial bias which plays itself out in statistically longer sentances for black people commiting the same crime? Right a disproportionate amount of black people getting locked and carrying out slave labour. In fact 1 in 3 black males has been imprisoned in the US at least once. Add to that the poverty etc etc (if you are interested in this check out the doc 13th on netflix). 

So you can see from my example this is a very real issue thats happening today, in fact more people are imprisoned now than there were sold into slavery when it was legal. We'd all like to think we'd do something about slavery if we were alive back then but worse is happening now and we sit back. So my overall point is i dont know what the exact solution is but i know its something we should address and not put our head in the sand about and i also think truly understanding where someone else is coming or what they might be going through is a step in the right direction to what you say and which agree with, that we all are one consciousness. 

[MasterNigel]

I agree its unfair that blacks get longer prison time for the same crime, and that their are financial incentives to hold more prisoners. I dont think it is unfair however that their are more blacks in prison in general, i think they kinda dug their own grave on that one by committing half of all murders in the US. No disrespect thats just a fact. On the upside more prison time is a great opportunity for enlightenment, they'l get that ten thousand hours of contemplation and meditation out of the way in no time!

Edited September 1, 2017 by MasterNigel

[Consept]

Lol yeah ok then, so you believe black people are inherently 'bad' and are just more likely to commit murder. Anyway, i honestly hope youve gained sonething from this exchange

Edited September 1, 2017 by Consept

[MasterNigel]

Before you shy away from an unfortunate fact, lets try and understand this fully. I dont think they are inherently "bad". We're not talking about kids missbehaving. The fact that they do half of all murdering in the US while being about thirteen percent of the population, would lead someones common sense faculty to believe that they are more likely to murder than the other racial groups. I have no bad intentions and im coming at this without bias. Also ninety three percent of those murders are of other blacks, so it doesent seem like the goal in mind is banning together for improvement.

[SFRL]

@MasterNigel you should watch the documentary "13TH" on Netflix. It got some really interesting points about the US prison system and black opression. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by SFRL

[Haumea]

Quote

Now who has planted this in me society, parents,myself or is this something deeper??

Who knows? Social programming isn't the only possibility.  There's genetics (many American blacks, if that's what you are, are part white), and who knows who you were in past lives?

Edited September 1, 2017 by Haumea

[Consept]

17 hours ago, MasterNigel said:

Before you shy away from an unfortunate fact, lets try and understand this fully. I dont think they are inherently "bad". We're not talking about kids missbehaving. The fact that they do half of all murdering in the US while being about thirteen percent of the population, would lead someones common sense faculty to believe that they are more likely to murder than the other racial groups. I have no bad intentions and im coming at this without bias. Also ninety three percent of those murders are of other blacks, so it doesent seem like the goal in mind is banning together for improvement.

Well the question would then be why are they more likely to commit murders? One argument could be that people in poverty whatever the race are more likely to commit crime and murder, so then it comes down to why are a lot of black people in poverty? Thats a complex issue which ive touched on as well in previous post. 

Main point is everything imo is causal so there are reasons why things happen this isnt to excuse anything or look at who the victims are, but to get a genuine understanding of why certain people are in certain situations. Its very easy to say (not neccersarily saying this is your point) black are just like this and white people are just like this. But to actually look unbiasedly at why these things are happening is very important to changing the tide. 

As @SFRL suggested you should watch 13th on netflix and while watching also watch how your mind reacts to it, do you question everything, do you accept it, do you dismiss it, watch what you do. 

[MasterNigel]

I will watch that movie you've suggested with an open mind. How about the idea that if people of african descent look soo much different than say europeans than the brain and character traits must be just as different. For example more fierceness as an attribute, for reasons of survival amongst fiercer predators. Perhaps those survivability traits translate to the murder rates we see today in the modern west. Just throwin that out there. Best of luck with getting to the bottom of it, Nigel

[SFRL]

2 hours ago, MasterNigel said:

I will watch that movie you've suggested with an open mind. How about the idea that if people of african descent look soo much different than say europeans than the brain and character traits must be just as different. For example more fierceness as an attribute, for reasons of survival amongst fiercer predators. Perhaps those survivability traits translate to the murder rates we see today in the modern west. Just throwin that out there. Best of luck with getting to the bottom of it, Nigel

That's funny you say that. My girlfriend is Black and I think I have some insight in this. 

You say: "Maybe Black people are genetically predisposed to commit more violence". 

The funny thing is that I have heard a lot of Black people make that same claim about White people. Their reasoning is that during colonial times it were the White people who went around killing and enslaving other people. Also I have heard Black people say that most serial killers are white, which statistically I think is truth. (......) And that it was White people who pretty much exterminated the Native Americans in North America. Just for good measure let me also remind you that is was White people (Arians) who mass exterminated the Jews in WW2. And as singled out examples by your reasoning Barack Obama should be more vicious then Donald Trump. 

Now like I said there are White people who do hold those believes regarding Black people. And there are Black people holding those same believes about White people. So one side got to be in the wrong correct? Or maybe both sides or right in their assumption, and humans as a whole are an agressive species predisposed to be violent. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by SFRL

[Consept]

4 hours ago, MasterNigel said:

I will watch that movie you've suggested with an open mind. How about the idea that if people of african descent look soo much different than say europeans than the brain and character traits must be just as different. For example more fierceness as an attribute, for reasons of survival amongst fiercer predators. Perhaps those survivability traits translate to the murder rates we see today in the modern west. Just throwin that out there. Best of luck with getting to the bottom of it, Nigel

Just so you know, Hitler also believed in genetics in the way you describe, ie different races having generalised superior and inferior attributes, which of course led to the holocaust. If you look at murder rates across the world Central and South American countries are usually the highest, as well as African countries. What you'll also notice is Russia a predominately white country has a higher murder rate than Nigeria, Mali and a number of African countries. Also the USA has a higher murder rate than Rwanda, Niger, Liberia and several other African countries. This isnt the total number of murders (of which USA is 8th with just under 16,000) this is number of murders per 100,000. Actually if you took away 50% of all murders in the USA, which you say are committed by blacks, the USA would only drop down to 13th in total murders in the world.

So to jump to such a conclusion about black people being genetically pre disposed to commit murder i think just doesnt add up. Also whats notable about the list is that the higher murder rates belong to poorer countries. 

Also to @SFRL's point, yes you can make the argument that white people have been brutal in the last few hundred years or so, slavery, holocaust, colonisation, etc etc and thats not even getting into systemic racism, KKK, Black wall street the list goes on. Point is that to generalise people especially through genetics just doesnt work, in fact Hitlers theories have been debunked by modern science. But basically my standpoint is that poverty creates crime and murder amongst other factors, rather than as you say just genetics, if it was just genetics African countries would have the highest murder rates, also its very simplistic to even say its just one factor, especially such a loose debunked factor as youve mentioned. But anyway im not trying to prove im right i just want to encourage you to have a truly open mind about a topic such as this and not just jump to assumptions. Check out the doc anyway