Electronic Devices To Measure Meditation Progress Quantitatively?

[Wouter]

I think this would increase my motivation every time I advance a little bit. So do their exist divices to measure concentration ability, equanimity,...?

 

 

 

[ajasatya]

@Wouter i can't come up with a better technology than awareness.

can you imagine zen monks comparing their performances with the numbers from last week?

drop it. if you depend on food for your ego, you better give up already. this certainly isn't for you.

[Nahm]

@Wouter there are apps for this. There's one that even comes with the iPhone. I haven't tried them myself. I can see where they might be useful, maybe help someone get a routine going and change some habits. Good luck. Let us know.

[Wouter]

@Nahm  Thanks!

 

[Wouter]

14 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

can you imagine zen monks comparing their performances with the numbers from last week?

 

No, so what? I don't even speek about comparing my numbers with other people, just to track my progress and see what techniques are effective etc. It could also install a positive feedback loop: progress->seeing it:motivation->more progress. 

 

14 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

if you depend on food for your ego, you better give up already. this certainly isn't for you.

It seems obvious that as long as you have an ego, you still depend on food for your ego, doesn't it? 

What is "this"? How do you know what exactly I am after?

@ajasatya I think your answer was arrogant.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Wouter

[Shin]

Your motivation should be your suffering.

If you don't, then truth.

If you don't value truth, then we'll see you next life :3

[ajasatya]

@Wouter you haven't understood what i said. it doesn't matter if you don't want to compare your numbers with others. what i said is that even comparing your numbers with your own numbers will drive you in the opposite direction.

if you really want to progress in meditation, you have to sit down and give up completely.

[Soulbass]

I have tried "Heart Quest" (before and after "Lucia N°03").

It's Russian based technology.

It displays the chakra's energy levels and stuff... I don't know how it works, and what is the value of this, but it displayed different results before and after the session with Lucia Light.

http://medicahealth.org/medicahealth-products/heart-quest-heart-rate-variability-monitor/

https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1280&bih=695&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=f54fe769cb74eacb0905de41116501d3&oq=f54fe769cb74eacb0905de41116501d3&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4517.24572.0.25235.20.20.0.0.0.0.241.2213.10j6j3.19.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.0.0.5hoe4RDsCV8#imgrc=hxZpbydpy4IDkM:

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Soulbass

[Wouter]

@Soulbass What where your experiences?

[AleksM]

@Wouter

 

I don't understant people who want to do this enlightenment thing the old school way. I think it's a HUGE waste of time. You can end suffering and become enlightened 1000x faster now, then 2000 years ago.

 

[Wouter]

@AleksM Probably thats a ginormous exageration, I think. But yeah I also don't see why you wouldn't use technology that can help as long as it doen't become a distraction.

[Wouter]

Did you alreasy test MUSE? What were your experiences?

[Soulbass]

42 minutes ago, Wouter said:

@Soulbass What where your experiences?

@Wouter

Heart Quest : I've been asked to wet my wrists with water, then put those 2 metal pegs on it. After few minutes, the software displayed the results on computer. I did that before and after Lucia N°03 and it displayed different results (my chakras where "pumped up" after Lucia Light).

Lucia N°03 : It's a sort of stroboscopic lamp you watch eyes closed. The benefits are real and tangibles, after the 30 minutes session, I felt great, repaired, confident, loving, clear minded, even physical abilities seemed changed. Those effects stayed for few days, and then back to normal. While experiencing Lucia Light, some people report seeing "scenes" with the 3rd eye. I've seen an arm healing me (probably the arm of the higher-self, some beings on a different plane). Also I've seen an eye (it looked like mine) which may symbolize "I see you, don't worry, I know you'r there and I know you exist" and I've seen the eye of an eagle too (shamanic symbol). I've seen pictures of myself when I'll be old, and the face of a woman. Some people report living past life events, or seeing gorgeous landscapes from other worlds. It's like activating your pineal gland or something that makes your consciousness change it's frequency.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Soulbass

[AleksM]

@Wouter No. But looks legit, I Will definitely buy it in the future.

I found a better review of this device.

 

[Real Eyes]

This sounds pretty awesome.

[TJ Reeves]

@AleksM @Real Eyes @Wouter

I've personally used Muse for a period of 3 months and talked to a few others about it

• Once I got over the honeymoon phase of having something new, I began to find distracting and ditched it for regular old zazen
• One of the girls I talked to who tried it found it a waste of time after a few months as well
• It only has a 3.5 / 5 star review on amazon with over  -- I too would give it a 3.5 --- for something that was $200 I better have a 5/5 product. 
• The Zen Master I practice with said it was just another delusional product made by delusional people and that the state of "calmness" is a distraction from the pursuit of truth. He further claimed that in general things like stopping Brain waves in EEGs are like a form of juggling trick -- cool, but unnecessary for enlightenment. (I don't necessarily agree with his view, but he has +30 years of experience in zen, which is worth at least considering. And no, he's not a close minded dude overall, so he's not just being crotchety.)
• Leo described it as a toy and that for proper neurofeedback you would need an EEG for that costs a few thousand dollars. 

Overall This is not to say I'm now totally against the idea of using EEGs, it's just that I don't think we have the technology for cheap ones yet. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by TJ Reeves

[cetus]

I used an Emwave2 Heart coherence monitor for a while. I thought I'd give it a try it just out of curiosity.  It trains you to stay in a relaxed but focused point on the breath as it registers heart coherence as the feedback. If the mind wonders too far, it will let you know in real time via computer graphing program whether your in the zone of coherence or not.. Once you find that 'zone' or sweet spot you experience sort of synchronization between mind, breath and heart. Long term meditators do that of course. But who knows how long it may take to find that balanced 'coherence zone' that seasoned masters experience. This gives you real time feedback so it takes the guess work out of it. I found it to be a bit distracting though at times so I would do a 20 min. meditation session with the Emwave2, just to get into coherence, than continue into a regular meditation after the session ended.

 

[ajasatya]

i gave this topic a second thought and then i realized how much these devices actually suck for real.

by using devices to measure his level of agitation, one will try to pursue calmness and will attach to peaceful moments. there will be frustration when he doesn't "get there". and none of this is the goal of meditation at all!

meditation is not a pursuit for calmness. damn, a hot bath does the job much more effectively.
the goal of meditation is to free oneself from his addiction to pursuits and expectations. the goal of meditation is to liberate oneself from any state of mind, be it calm or agitated.

my wife is not pregnant yet, but when she becomes pregnant and the son is about to be born, do you think the mind will be quiet? hell no! the mind will do its thing. but i'm not identified with a particular state of mind.

Edited August 27, 2017 by ajasatya

[AleksM]

@ajasatya A calm state of mind is a stage of healing, it is a neccesary step to progress on the spiritual path. The mind creates conflict because it is dualistic. When one is identified with ego (and at the start of the spiritual journey everybody is) the body is reacting to those thoughts and that creates emotions, and bad emotions make your body tense. This tension gets stuck in the physical body. When one is tense for a lot of time without releasing this tension, this tension spirals out of control. To prevent this, one has to realize this calm state of mind. If one doesn't realize this state he cannot prevent this and tension starts to build, build and build to the point of disease.

The lower the brainwaves the more healing power channels into the body. If you don't experience any lower brainwaves for a few days, you would be dead.

So with EEG one can start to better recognize his brain waves and that helps one to get into healing mode when that's needed.

 Recognizing patterns is important, that's basicly what spiral Dynamics stage torquoise is about.

I still think it's better to think of this as stages of progression. One can never free oneself from a state of mind without experiencing it first.

Calmness is healing. Parasympathetic nervous system is activated. The breath is slower, and when you get really deep, it's like you need very little air to function, the breath is slow automatically.

The overactive sympathetic nervous system causes stress and 90% of doctor visits. Stress is the main cause of disease and the main cause of death.

The sympathetic nervous system is active when brainwaves are high and the Parasympathetic is active when there are more lower brainwaves.

When tension is present in the body, one cannot shift between brainwaves effectively. So it's neccesarry to first realese all this tension, go trough the side effects of meditation (the purging process) and than once that is done, one can easily shift between states without getting attached and do the thing that you said - to liberate oneself from any state of mind.  But then again one can become attached to a state of mind that is not attached to any state of mind and there is too much fluctuation. There is no more calmness. So... it's really all about alignment and synchronization. So you stay synchronized with that which is.

The synchronization of the aura with the "state" of bliss, that which you actually is.

That's also I think why it's better to think of one as existing and not existing at the same time. There is a fluctuation between matter and anti-matter, you are a particle but also a wave. If you think that you don't exist and get attached to this than synchronization falls away and your selling yourself so short you can't even imagine really.

Yes you can be enlightened and not synchronized, But when your enlightened and not synchronized with that which is, your experiencing far far far far far far less bliss than from being enlightened and synchronized. This requeries embracing a greater paradox and also leads to experiencing more of what one is.

The perfect alignment is when you can maintain 13Hz in your brain as far as my research goes.

@TJ Reeves I looked it up and muse actually has a rating of 4.1/5 based on 538 reviews and I think that's pretty good. I don't think you Will ever get a 5/5 review based on 538 reviews for a tool that can help you.

What do you think about the data that muse provided you with? Have you gained anything from using that device after you stopped using it?

I have written something about this calmness above, I think that also applyies to what your Zen master said (I have not read his article yet).

I don't know if you really need an EEG that costs a few thousands to get accurate data. The more expensive the EEG the more precise the data Will be but that doesn't mean you cannot get beneficial data from the cheaper one.

[cetus]

 

59 minutes ago, AleksM said:

The sympathetic nervous system is active when brainwaves are high and the Parasympathetic is active when there are more lower brainwaves.

Here is a bit more information on that.