Are Psychadelics Necessary?

[Paan]

I know its not "necessary" but is it alot harder to get some profound insights or going deep etc without psychadelics?

I dont know anyone who can provide me with it. Some time ago before Ive even heard about enlightenment Ive tried MDMA that a friend had, but that was at a party and not at all for some deep contemplation. 

It seems like everyone here uses psychadelics, that why im so curious:)

[5driedgrams]

@Paan Good morning! (at least it's morning where I am )

     Leo has talked at length about this and I'm excited to hear what he has to say on the subject, but you can get some insight in the meantime with this video

     This can be applied to the use of mushrooms and other various psychedelics. MDMA has some potential for breakthroughs in empathy and has been used for PTSD and marriage counseling, but I personally stick to mushrooms as a tool to progress in the path to enlightenment and self-actualization.

     Short answer is no, they are not necessary, and the question of "is it a lot harder to get these deep insights without the use of psychedelics" is very dependent on who you're asking. In the above video he says "the only way you can know for sure is by trying it yourself."

     When I was 18 I had my first mushroom experience. I had no idea what I was in for. I thought id see some cool colors and things might be more funny to me. My favorite way to explain the psychedelic experience is by saying "its like seeing the world and everything in it for the first time all over again". I experienced the love I have for my family and friends as if I'd never really experienced it before. I wept.

      Nowadays, my use of psychedelics is geared towards unconditional love and true happiness. It's easy to say that a life of service to others is the key to happiness, its easy to say you believe that because the Buddha said it, but a recent psychedelic experience of mine helped me TRULY KNOW this. I wept at the realization of this. It all became so clear.

     My argument is that I could spend years (decades even) striving to truly attain these realizations, and if there are tools available to help me speed up that process, I'm going to use them. They are not for everyone, the only way you can know is by taking the leap yourself.

     If you are interesting in procuring these substances, you could go to a music festival and find them pretty easily. You could learn about the deep web and make a purchase accordingly. You can also grow your own mushrooms if youre so inclined ( I am )  I do not advocate any of these I'm just sayin they can be done

     These are just my personal ruminations on the subject and I am excited to hear what anyone/everyone else has to say! One of my favorite topics!

[EDIT] 5 meo dmt is no joke and if you have only experimented with MDMA I would suggest a gram of mushrooms to get a feel for the psychedelic experience. This is definitely something you want to "test the waters" with before diving right in. Weed also gives you very little (I'd say none at all) insight into psychedelics.

Edited August 25, 2017 by 5driedgrams

[Paan]

@5driedgrams thanks for the reply.

Even if i could get hold of some mushrooms i dont know when i will be able to use it. I live togheter with my girlfriend and she isnt at all into self actualizing or psychedelics.

I meditate everyday and throughout the day Im kind of contemplating also , i always think about something that  is about enlightenment. I also read books from peter ralston.

Ive got some insights for sure but never like it gotten me to a big shift.

[5driedgrams]

     Well then you've got your work cut out for you if your interest is really piqued. I was in a relationship with  a girl who was not at all into either as well. The relationship inevitably ended. Hopefully she will start getting into it! Psychedelics is a much harder endeavor to open someone up to. Maybe if you have some friends who are into psychs you could spend a night at one of their houses. It's definitely a wise idea to be with someone who has some experience with them, as even a gram can be overwhelming (especially if it is a specific kind of hallucinogenic mushroom). Do research and be safe!

Edited August 25, 2017 by 5driedgrams

[Paan]

@5driedgrams thank you

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Paan said:

Ive got some insights for sure but never like it gotten me to a big shift.

Try listening to this. It's not psychedelics but it may open some doors for you.

 

[Leo Gura]

No, they are not necessary. But you should be prepared to invest 1000s of hours in hardcore practice if you want to get anywhere close to the insights accessible on psychedelics.

1 solid trip done with proper protocol is equivalent to about 1 year of daily meditation practice for the average person.

If we're talking 5-meo, 1 solid 5-meo trip is equivalent to 5 to 10 years of daily meditation practice for the average person.

Those are rough estimates.

[Paan]

@Leo Gura thanks for the reply! As it seems right now ill be sticking to my meditation, contemplation and reading books. Who knows what happens later on. 

Im kind of bothered i cant share this with my girlfriend, she has no interest in it at all. Ive tried some small contemplative senctences to just open her up but it just ends with her telling me im crazy and insane. She doesnt like the books i have either. This was some time ago, now i dont bother at all actually, she can do what she wants and i do what i want, i just keep focus on the work i put in.

Also I cant thank you enough Leo for the videos you are putting out, its really priceless to have this knowledge. Forever thankful!

 

[Timotheus]

@Leo GuraAre you referring only to the insights or also to one's level of awareness and/or lack of ego?

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, they are not necessary. But you should be prepared to invest 1000s of hours in hardcore practice if you want to get anywhere close to the insights accessible on psychedelics.

1 solid trip done with proper protocol is equivalent to about 1 year of daily meditation practice for the average person.

If we're talking 5-meo, 1 solid 5-meo trip is equivalent to 5 to 10 years of daily meditation practice for the average person.

Those are rough estimates.

I'm curious where you're getting your statistics? You've already take psychedelics, so how would you know how long it would or wouldn't take without them?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Timotheus said:

@Leo GuraAre you referring only to the insights or also to one's level of awareness and/or lack of ego?

Definitely the insights.

Baseline level of awareness is a trickier thing. It requires consistent tripping to raise in my experience. Of course meditation raises it, but takes a long time (years).

2 hours ago, Anna1 said:

I'm curious where you're getting your statistics? You've already take psychedelics, so how would you know how long it would or wouldn't take without them?

I pulled them out of my ass.

But once you have some deep breakthroughs, you easily recognize just how long it would have taken you to get there "naturally". It ends up being a horribly long time.

The thought comes to mind: "Not in a million years!"

My experiences lead me to believe that spiritual masters are no ordinary human beings. They have brains/minds which are chemically and genetically tuned for enlightenment insights. Imagine a spiritual master as someone who naturally has 5-meo coursing through his brain all the time. That gives you an idea why enlightenment is so rare. Natural selection puts a lot of pressure on brains to be pragmatic and low-consciousness, with only a few managing to escape the bell curve.

So to me, psychedelics just even the playing field.

It's like you're trying to play basketball against a guy who's 7 feet tall.

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I pulled them out of my ass.

Huge belly laugh! ...I knew that!! 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But once you have some deep breakthroughs, you easily recognize just how long it would have taken you to get there "naturally". It ends up being a horribly long time.

2 yrs to realize my true nature. ...naturally. No, I didn't spend all day in meditation. 

I had tried suicide prior, do to extreme suffering...the OD wasn't strong enough, after 5 days in a coma and on life support... I survived. To my suprise. 

So, I was highly motivated for a change! 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Anna1

[Nahm]

@Anna1 awww! Glad you're back to good!

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Anna1 said:

2 yrs to realize my true nature. ...naturally. No, I didn't spend all day in meditation. 

I had tried suicide prior, do to extreme suffering...the OD wasn't strong enough, after 5 days in a coma and on life support... I survived. To my suprise. 

So, I was highly motivated for a change!

Yes, for some people it can happen rather quickly. Depends on many factors (or your karma as the Hindu's like to say).

But also keep in mind, there might be more to your true nature you haven't yet realized, and you won't know how significance that difference in depth can be until after you hit it. This rabbit hole tends to go much deeper than people realize, even "enlightened" ones.

[Ananta]

@Leo Gura Yep, that was 6 years ago. There is/was much more that was revealed.

[Nahm]

@Paan check out meetup.com

[123456789]

On 26.8.2017 at 1:45 AM, Leo Gura said:

No, they are not necessary. But you should be prepared to invest 1000s of hours in hardcore practice if you want to get anywhere close to the insights accessible on psychedelics.

 @Leo Gura Are the insights worth it? 

Edited August 27, 2017 by 123456789

[Natasha]

On 8/25/2017 at 11:33 PM, Anna1 said:

2 yrs to realize my true nature. ...naturally. No, I didn't spend all day in meditation. 

Took me about a year and a half, shift happened suddenly and also naturally (while self-inquiring). Was permanent and have been gradually deepening. I was highly motivated as well 'to get to the bottom of it' due to intense suffering at the time. I happened to listened to a lot of Eckhart Tolle and Sadhuru at the begining before the shift, read Tolle's A New Earth. Then came across Leo's channel, started to meditate and do self-enquiry...and the rest is history.

I like your 'full circle' analogy you've been introducing in your posts. I can see how I've been following this pattern myself. If this is your original idea and you could patent and sell it, you'd make lots of money  

Edited August 27, 2017 by Natasha

[Ananta]

4 hours ago, Natasha said:

Took me about a year and a half, shift happened suddenly and also naturally (while self-inquiring).

I wouldn't call my experience at the 2 year mark a permanent shift. Rather a direct Self recognition, an apprehension of what I really am, however this knowing/realization would come and go for years. It would flicker on/off.

There is still somewhat of a capacity to "borderline" suffer, under certain conditions, then something is seen through in that moment, a remembering that it's a dream/illusion/mithya. 

4 hours ago, Natasha said:

I happened to listened to a lot of Eckhart Tolle

I started with Tolle also...then Adyashanti, mooji, nisargadatta, ect, ect for the past year and half traditional Vedanta. 

4 hours ago, Natasha said:

I like your 'full circle' analogy you've been introducing in your posts. I can see how I've been following this pattern myself. If this is your original idea and you could patent and sell it, you'd make lots of money  

Not sure what post (s) you're referring to exactly, but I know I used the hologram analogy on here at least twice. But, yeah, one cant linger out only in "I'm awareness" land forever. You have to go back in, see that "it's all" awareness. So, you play your role, while simultaneously knowing the bigger ultimate truth. Imo, part of playing your role is getting a bit messy and sometimes bordering on the verge of suffering, allowing yourself to feel into situations fully. 

Perhaps one day it wont be that way for me, but for now it is...

Oh, almost forgot "coming full circle" is not an original idea. Either I picked it up from Vedanta or somewhere else I'm sure. What I wrote in regards to it may have been mine (?), but not the idea itself. It's like the before enlightenment chop wood, carry water...after enlightenment chop wood carry water or at first there were mountains, then no mountains, then mountains again (both describe coming full circle).

Edited August 27, 2017 by Anna1

[Ananta]

48 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Rather a direct Self recognition, an apprehension of what I really am

I was watching this 15 min video in 2011, when it happened. 

Not that it will work for others, but you never know.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Anna1