Why Arent Enlightenment Experiences Easily Replicable?

[Viking]

i mean, if you saw the goddamn thing, why cant you just come to it again?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Ilya

[AlwaysBeNice]

Who says they aren't. Just through habit and fear we go away from it, it's not inherently hard however.

[Delinkaaaa]

This question is critical. Seriously, this is a great Idea to thing about. 

I would like to give you explenation that you are not going to like, because like all of the another people here on the forum, you are so close minded, that you can not alow yourself to think about enlightenment as it is somethink else, than supernatural matter.

Enlightenment is not a supernatrual matter. It is physical state of being of your boady and mind. Enlightenment is fully adjustable in its essentials, as every other concept here on Earth. If you say that enlightenment is "merging of the consciousness with the infinity", than you made your ideal of it. This ideal can be changed. (For example, tomorrow Lio can drive crazy and say that the essence of enlightenment is becoming a strip dancer. Than all of the people here in community could, or could not accept his "strip dancing enlightenment propousal", and change, or not, the concept of enlightenment.)

Now, sure it is way too heavier to make your counsciousness to behave as "the presence of infinity", than making it behave as what it would look alike to be strip dancing. Infinity is nothing really present in the nature. The same as number zero, it is pure concept of human mind. Nowhere in the universe is "number" zero, or "number" infinity manifested. Same it is not present nowhere in our counsciousness and it could not be found there. So we have to adjust our best quess what it looks alike in order to aproximate our ideal of enlightenment. Than we, naturaly, approach this ideal while meditating.

So why is hard to mimic the expirience AFTER we done it before? It could be because our human counsciousness is a stream created by several dozens of factors, which could be hardly the same in the next meditation. The moods are not the same, the chemical balances in the boady are different, and so does other events in the game. When we include that it is not clear what enlightenment should be understand as, even though there could be some match in the community, than it is even harder to approach the goal that is not well defined.

TL:DR - it is hard to replicate, that what you consider to be, "enlightened expirience" because the biological factors are different and because the ideal is not well defined and you do not understand what you are approaching - which is the ideal of enlightenment, which does not have its true form in nature, it is just a concept.

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightenment is about realizing that all beliefs are existentially false by being the result of that not merely conceiving the result of that.  Don't worry about experiences.  Work with the root.  This is why Self-Inquiry is so important.  Experiences are the result of doing this work, not what enlightenment is.  Enlightenment is not a far-out state.  Enlightenment is being reality all the time.  See -- our realities are augmented by our thought-stories which introduce a lot of fantasy into our "reality".  Enlightenment is being reality, but also seeing through the added-on  fantasies very acutely, like the magician sees through the illusion of all his magic-tricks.  You don't need drugs for enlightened being.  People do drugs to explore the shit out of being, to *research being* by *being it*.  Enlightenment research is done by BE-ing.  But all you need is sober being to be enlightened.  Everything else is just higher *research*.  Just like you really only need a JD or Juris Doctor degree to practice law but if you had a deeper interest in law you could get the LLM degree with is the Master of Laws degree.  But that degree is optional.  All you really need to practice law is the JD.  Same distinction can be made in enlightenment.  All I want is the JD for now.  Others on here are pursuing the LLM Degree.  Some people on here are still in Undergrad, ya know!  It's a mix.  You gotta understand that Leo is *researching* the shit out of enlightenment at the Ph.D. level.  You need to get to the Bachelor's Degree first.  Don't think Enlightenment is a single thing or state or destination.  It's an evolution, a life-long transformation.  You just need to get on the path in the best way from where you are right now.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Viking]

i guess I understood somewhat, it's because people often call enlightenment "realization". usually we realize stuff intellectually, so if we realize something, we can understand the thing by the definition of realizing. on the other hand, enlightenment is an experiential realization and not an intellectual one. it's like winning the lottery, you gotta get all the numbers right to win the prize, the numbers being the circumstances at a time.

but in that case, isnt enlightenment just brain stuff? in that case does it really answer our existential questions? can we trust that experience?

Edited August 24, 2017 by Ilya

[Nahm]

@Ilya why can't you see that your body is nothing more than what you've eaten lately, your thoughts are just electrical impulses, and your personality is just thoughts you repeat? at which point in all that causation is there a 'you' ? no where   no thing   

 

[Ananta]

6 hours ago, Ilya said:

i mean, if you saw the goddamn thing, why cant you just come to it again?

The way you wrote this is too funny..lol!

Anyways, you ARE the god damn thing (no-thing). So, there was no "you" (false self) that saw "it". What happens is you apprehend your true nature and when thought comes back, it claims the "non-experience", as an experience, as if it was there. 

[Arman]

Early experiences seem more a matter of grace than of willpower or force. Maybe you can't make it happen again because you're not the one that made it happen. I also think the nervous system needs to be purified before it can sustain those states for too long because it can be taxing on a body that isn't used to higher energies. 

[Visitor]

@Ilya Enlightenment is to know and allow Truth to become you. The Truth is that little bit in you that is pure, soft, quiet, calm, gentle, and unconditionally loving. To 'replicate it', or to become True again, is to unconditionally love that little bit of love that loves you.

[Delinkaaaa]

11 hours ago, Ilya said:

i guess I understood somewhat, it's because people often call enlightenment "realization". usually we realize stuff intellectually, so if we realize something, we can understand the thing by the definition of realizing. on the other hand, enlightenment is an experiential realization and not an intellectual one. it's like winning the lottery, you gotta get all the numbers right to win the prize, the numbers being the circumstances at a time.

but in that case, isnt enlightenment just brain stuff? in that case does it really answer our existential questions? can we trust that experience?

Here is the answer - human expirience does not include the reasons for anything in the existence, the same as the expiriences of any other organisms, with any other shapes of counsciousness, does not.

Human counsciousness, and the other kinds of counsciousnesses, has evolved during the evolutin as a tool to survive. Asking your counsciousness for handing you a true nature of being is like to want your leg to do it. But leg is used for walking, and it could not do nothing more.

Unless you want to deny evolution, you have to accept that enlightenment is overrated. It is a religious praction. Leo is making religion based on believes in suppernational order. Otherwise you can accept the believes in enlightenment. But if you do, do that consciously, for your own dignity.

You better start think for yourself. You can still meditate, but it is way more clever to set your own goals for meditation and do not enter the mainstream. Enlightenment is mainstream, because it is so easy to accept the concept - not a lot of people have enough inteligence to understand what is going on.

[orroz]

how can the "I" replicate the absence of itself?

who testifies this absence?

isn't it a tragi-comical affair ?

[Viking]

@orroz but the "I" does all the self inquiry and stuff to get there in the first place.

[Shin]

3 hours ago, Ilya said:

@orroz but the "I" does all the self inquiry and stuff to get there in the first place.

No,  it just think it does.

[Viking]

@Shin it's in a different context, "i" as a sense of the body, the body goes through the process.

[Gabriel Antonio]

15 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Ilya why can't you see that your body is nothing more than what you've eaten lately, your thoughts are just electrical impulses, and your personality is just thoughts you repeat? at which point in all that causation is there a 'you' ? no where   no thing   

 

Clap... Clap... Clap... 

__________________________

The moment you remember that it was all a programming, you being to wake up... It has nothing to do with winning the lottery. It is simply remembering... 

Maybe you should try more basic self-development. There is A LOT to learn from the very classic self-development. This includes praticing sports regularly, having a life purpose, and living for the world. 

Why? Enlightenement has nothing to do with supernatural phenomena. In fact, enlightement is present right here in this moment. Maybe you just don't see it. Maybe a deep breath can help you.  

Check this out. This video cuts through a lot of bullshit. 

"No matter where you are, there you are."

John Kabbat Zin

[orroz]

7 hours ago, Ilya said:

@orroz but the "I" does all the self inquiry and stuff to get there in the first place.

yes.. the "I" does a lot of crazy things (especially imaginary stuff)... but he forgets the most useful

doing stuff, keeping pursuit, seeking the unfindable is his "safety device", a way of continuing his fancy journey.

The typical behaviour is seeking in order not to find, so that there is no end.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by orroz

[Shin]

Master: "You have to be in the present moment"

Student: "How can I achieve this ?"

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Shin

[Viking]

yeah, I agree, i think i understand what you guys are saying but thats not what i meant. in order for the body to not do action, it has to force it because the default mode is to do something.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Ilya

[Nahm]

@Gabriel Antonio I don't see the point you are making, of the lottery, and the video, etc.

[Aware]

@Gabriel Antonio By You comes forgetfulness, rememberance and knowledge.

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