Wouldn't It Be More Accurate To Say That The Free-will/ No Free-will Dichotomy Stands At Cross-purposes To Reality?

[Joseph Maynor]

We need to be careful about saying there is no free-will or that there is free-will.  These are beliefs about reality and all beliefs are existentially false.  Reality just is.

If existence/ non-existence doesn't fly then neither should free-will/ no free-will.  

Edited August 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[hundreth]

"But even this statement must eat itself."

Blah blah we know dude. 

[Max_V]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

"But even this statement must eat itself."

Blah blah we know dude. 

Why so rude?

[Joseph Maynor]

11 hours ago, hundreth said:

"But even this statement must eat itself."

Blah blah we know dude. 

Do you know (by belief) or do you know (by being)?  That is the question.  Can you tell the difference?  This has huge ramifications for being the Truth.

You are half-right.  Why would you pooh-pooh this crucial point?  Not to belabor this, but what I am saying here has big BEING ramifications -- the potential removal of a limiting-belief/ dream-killer.

All beliefs must be examined because they're all existentially false. 

This is a *discovery* I recently made in my self-inquiry work, not some mere mental-masturbation exercise. And I had mind to share it on here, that's all. I could have kept it to myself.  But I wanted some legit feedback.  And I wanted to share the insight.

One of the greatest things enlightenment did for me was to unscrew all my limiting-beliefs out of my psyche.  Listen to Leo's Dream-killers videos for more info about limiting-beliefs.  They're in his audio downloads section of his website.  There are 21 videos and they are all excellent.

No free-will is a limiting-belief.  That's the upshot.  It's existentially false.  And the belief in free-will is existentially false too.  Reality just is.  All of our distinctions (including all of our beliefs) about the Absolute are egoic monkey-mind limiting-beliefs.  And yes, even this belief must eat itself.  You anticipated this correctly!  I'm glad.

Know by being the Truth not by conceiving the Truth.  This is SO hard to explain in oral or written discourse.  And I give props to Leo for trying to *teach* this to people. It is super-hard to communicate in thoughts because thoughts are the problem.  It's also frustrating as hell to write about it, but it must be done. That's our only way to ever come to *learn* it.  We pass the ladder to each other like a baton in one of those running races.  Use the ladder to get out of your own hole and then pass it on to the next person. And don't marry the ladder!  A cowboy doesn't marry his horse. (Last sentence borrowed from one of Leo's videos.)  

So, you're right.  Blah blah.  But blah blah is the ladder.  Without the ladder y'aint ever gonna get out of the hole!  The ladder is necessary but ultimately expendable.  Someone else buys the ladder from you at your own garage-sale with wide-eyes and bushy-tail.  And you say, take it!  I no longer need it.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[youngshinzen]

@Joseph Maynor Could we say that there is no distinction because there is no free will in the first place? 

[Ananta]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's also frustrating as hell to write about it, but it must be done.

Yes, it is. It's also frustrating to have a poster telling people repeatedly..."that's a beliefs, that a concept, that's a thought". We know! But how else to communicate? You've shut down a couple of my posts with the above comments and it's rude. Language is dualistic.

Ok, carry on....

Edited August 23, 2017 by Anna1

[Ananta]

I almost forgot to comment on the topic. "Who" would have free will? There's just what's happening....

But.. if you think you have free will, best to use it.

[Joseph Maynor]

11 hours ago, Max_V said:

Why so rude?

People don't like to have their precious beliefs challenged.  It's the collateral-damage of playing the role of the philosopher.  I get punched all the time.  Oy oy oy!  I can take it.  Socrates was killed.  The philosopher questions everything and doesn't cling to any beliefs tightly without good cause determined by a particular context.  And the true philosopher has the balls to publically question things even when it puts his own life in danger.  The true philosopher is only beholden to truth and to nothing else.  And even under the threat of gun and knife, he will give his life in service of his only master, truth itself.  Most people will not do this work in life and that's why they don't play the role of the philosopher.  It's a special-calling that a person might have in life.  You have to be ok with being the party-pooper, with potentially the entire world staring-daggers at you with crest-fallen face.  Probably not a good life-purpose for somebody who cares about what other people think about them haha.  Note it.

The ego wants to make hearth-and-home using beliefs, like a homeless  man building his castle out of cardboard boxes.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Erlend K]

I think it's a pointless question. The truth is that we have no idea wether free will exists or not. The universe seems to be non-deterministic on the quantum level, but it might very well be turn out to be deterministic when physics advances further. For all we know consciousness might be a fundamental part of the fabric of the universe, existing outside of/in parallell with the physical universe. Or it might simply arise from the feedbackloops of the brain. It's all just speculation. In real life however we have to live as if we had free will. 

[Nahm]

I experience a paradox of a perspective of outside free will, which is the only way I experience there is not free will to begin with. Free will, imo, may be the greatest feature of the illusion. It is not that I am a person who is so powerless that he has free will, it is that I am no thing which is infinite, there is no limit or event finite enough to experience anything specific, or that of free will, or of choice. To experience free will, I would have to be one thing, and I am not one thing, I'm no thing. I'm not even the clock maker, nor the clock itself, nor the observer of the clock. No thing does not have a property, not even free will. 

[Joseph Maynor]

On 8/22/2017 at 3:50 PM, Anna1 said:

Yes, it is. It's also frustrating to have a poster telling people repeatedly..."that's a beliefs, that a concept, that's a thought". We know! But how else to communicate? You've shut down a couple of my posts with the above comments and it's rude. Language is dualistic.

Ok, carry on....

I don't know what you are projecting onto me with this, but it has a creepy vibe to it.  I don't recall "shutting you down", those are your highly-charged words coming out of nowhere apparently.  It also sounds like victim thinking to me, like I pulled your internet cable or something.  This is a discussion Forum where people discuss things.  Not to belabor this but -- you can also ways respond back to anything I or anybody else says on here.  Nothin's stopping ya but your own limiting-beliefs!  And that's your own issue not my issue or anybody else's issue.  All problems come from the inside, but we want to look for them on the outside.  Also you shouldn't be getting emotionally-triggered from anything said on here.  My posts come from the heart, and if that doesn't work for you, just ignore them.  I appreciate your commentary so I don't share your opinion about your posts.  I rather enjoy them.  No hard feelings on my end.

Video on point to watch:

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

22 hours ago, Erlend K said:

I think it's a pointless question. The truth is that we have no idea wether free will exists or not. The universe seems to be non-deterministic on the quantum level, but it might very well be turn out to be deterministic when physics advances further. For all we know consciousness might be a fundamental part of the fabric of the universe, existing outside of/in parallell with the physical universe. Or it might simply arise from the feedbackloops of the brain. It's all just speculation. In real life however we have to live as if we had free will. 

We don't "know".  I agree.  To say one way or the other would be to introduce an existentially false belief into reality as a fantasy.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[orroz]

besides speculations... what do we actually know for real?

Edited August 24, 2017 by orroz

[Nahm]

This post is a display of no free will. Triggers, reactions, grosse lack of meditation. One big clock. 

[Ananta]

@Joseph Maynor hehe, that's the first time in 47 years that someone said I had a creepy vibe...lol!!!  

I had something to say, I said it and that's that.

No hard feelings here either!

Edited August 24, 2017 by Anna1

[Ananta]

"I'm just a "Creep". I'm just a weirdo". (Radiohead)

 

I like this version.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Anna1

[Aware]

@Joseph Maynor Yes.

Many discuss rather there is or

is no free will.  

Lets keep it simple. All desire to be truly loved by You, and all would want to have someone Who loves them forever and can be loved back for all eternity. 

There is no other true hearts desire.