Relationship With God As Method Of Spiritual Pursuit

[Arman]

God's a touchy subject. I'll paste an extract for the guidelines as a brief reminder to myself to keep on track.

Quote

This sub-forum is for serious spiritual questions and assistance! Don't come here to proclaim your belief in The Almighty Lord baby Jesus. People are here to do a direct inquiry into the nature of their own being and reality itself.

That said, there are valid spiritual aspects at the core of nearly all religious traditions, including Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, Daoism, Shamanism, Jainism, etc. HOWEVER, there's a very big difference between genuine spiritual pursuit and merely reciting beliefs, scriptures, and dogma.

Religion can to be discussed here, but you must ground the discussion in an genuine pursuit of truth. This means that you acknowledge that you really don't know what is true

Feel free to substitute the word God for Spirit, The Universe, or whatever. 

In many spiritual disciplines and paths, either a personal or impersonal relationship with God is a tool for transcending or becoming enlightened. I think some might say it can be limiting or misguided, other might say it is useful, some might say it is fundamental. I personally think that given different paths, all these are true at one point or another. 

For example in the Bakhti school of yoga, the primary practice is one of devotion. Thinking of God at all given moments seems to me like one of (or) the primary practice/s. 

Here are two extracts from the Bhagavad Gita, a cornerstone hindu scripture. In this context, Krishna is the embodiment and representation of God. 

Quote

 

Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Kṛiṣhṇa and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.

He who meditates on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha [Arjuna], is sure to reach Me.

 

We could say that within these practices or paths that the idea of God (or any avatar) is only a symbolic representation of some transcendental omnipresent object, but still, it remains clear to me still that many saints and revered yogi's maintain a very sweet and personal inner relationship, almost like with a lover or something. I also personally suspect that many of these individuals have reached enlightenment. 

 

So what are your opinions and experiences on this subject? What is your personal relationships, if any, with God or the universe? 

 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, that is certainly one valid path. It does work for some people.

The problem with modern western notions of God is that people have no clue what "God" actually refers to. They think of God as bearded man in the clouds. And that of course is a delusion. And it will totally screw up your attempts at enlightenment.

The problem is made even worse in that when people think about God, they think about "him" dogmatically and reverently. They don't actually question their beliefs. They don't see "God" as a belief, and are again totally lost in stories and illusions.

All of this makes God a HUGE obstacle for most modern people.

You have to be willing to throw God under the bus in this process. So long as you believe there is a God out there somewhere, that belief will become the biggest obstacle to you ever realizing what God is.

Enlightenment is closer to atheism than it is to modern religion or faith. Because God is actually Nothing. God is not an object. And God is not separate from you.

The reason people like to think about God is because they've been indoctrinated with the idea of God. So if you could drop the idea of God, you'd be much closer to God than anyone who worships God zealously.

There's a very good reason why in Buddhism they have the classic quote:

"When you meet the Buddha, kill him."

Worshiping the Buddha (or God) is retarding your search for truth.

[Eastbranch]

I've found that my imperfect journey into enlightenment keeps bringing me closer to what I will call God, for lack of a better term. Almost 30 years ago I decided to dump my Christian upbringing completely to study other faiths and practices. Before long I decided to trash every belief and only accept what I could experience, directly and personally. Through work and meditation (along with much angst, confusion, and self doubt) I began to experience a guiding force that I can only recognize as supreme consciousness or God. This force has lead me to people, places, and events that I could never have encountered without a connection to some higher, omnipresent "spirit." Mine is not the experience of others and I don't even recommend exploring this path. I am not enlightened by any means. I'm just saying that this is my truth from my experience. This experience is concrete and tangible for me. So personally, I connect to God as a guiding force, without any preconceived notions about what God is. 

 

[Neo]

I left a very close knit almost cultish religion and have spent many years riding myself and peeling away beliefs taught to me from a very young age. The journey into this field is especially challenging as one thing I was taught, for example, was that to open your mind through meditation was a sure way to let demons in. I have to battle this, and one such way was me to verbally deny god, or God. I hope that doesn't upset anyone here, but I felt it strange that as I don't believe in god anymore, I still found I could not verbally deny god, so I had to challenge myself to do it. In fact, since listening to Leo's video, even though I don't have a lot of time to put the work in in terms of thought and meditation, loads of shit has become apparent to me about reality and me, and my past. Something comes up from the sub conscious every day, because, although I am not putting in the hours I should be in meditation, I am thinking this through all the time.

What I wanted to say about the subject is that I know of other people who left that religion behind, and they had a religious experience that changed them. Some religions call it being "born again." I've seen it change people in a good way. I am guessing they have gone through some personal experiences similar to those we discuss on this forum. Some such ones have gone back to reading the gospels and have interpreted Jesus' words in a totally new light after such experiences and I too have reflected on this.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Neo

[Henri]

Cultivating love towards a concept of God is definitely a profound method because you can surrender all your desires to the one desire that is the longing for the missing one. Many schools consider it to be even the easiest and shortest way to self-fulfillment.

Love and surrender are the most powerful techniques and the main reason that western Buddhists are mostly attracted to the Tibetan version of it.

[Khin]

Well, most people believe in CREATOR because there is an illusion of freewill. There is an illusion of 'I' or 'You' and so that 'I' or 'You' is doing things, making choices. Therefore, without this 'I' or 'You', nothing will happen. In that case, there's a kind of mindset that this world wouldn't pop up out of nowhere. There must be someone who is just like 'You' or 'I', making choices, doing things.

In enlightenment case, all that beliefs flipped over. That's the hardest thing for most people. Many of my friends said it is very hard for them to take away their belief even though my explanations sound true for them. They said that it feels safe for them.

[Keyblade Viking]

Religion or rather Mythology is a great language to use if you understand it and don't just go by the dogmatic version.

The best part about it is that the symbols go straight to the subconscious mind, no scientific or psychological description or explanation of things will ever do that no matter how well told it is, so if you for example listen to Leos videos your left brain might start to grasp what he's saying really well but you will still be hold back in every aspect by your subconscious mind.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons why meditation is so damn important but if you smash the pillars of Religion and Science together you'd probably only need half the meditation to reach the same level of enlightenment (or something to that effect).

Rituals is the best shit ever if you want to change your subconscious btw, haven't tried it myself yet but it's pretty obvious, I've been told to read "kabbalah magic and the great work of self-transformation" by a guy who seam to really understand shit on youtube so if anyone is interested check it out.

If you say that you will live your life by nothingness and try to explain that to your red brain you gonna fail, if you say that you will live as a Brother or Sister of Christ and become a born again christian, you gonna fail, if you use all of those symbols and understand the meaning behind them you will progress even if it still take some time you will move forward because your subconscious understand that shit far better than your red, left brain do.

On the top of the blue pillar on the Kabbalistic tree of life lies Chokmah - Wisdom, this is to see the reflection of the Christ which is the Hidden one - The Nothingness that you are in everything and everyone around you (as strange at that sound seeing how it's nothing but you'll probably understand what I mean one day if you keep at it, it's the "shining light on things" meaning that Leo talked about in the latest video).

The blue pillar is the sub-conscious that see everything as one and there's no time or space in that part of the mind.

PS. The Book of Enoch say that the Elect will one day come down even on Mount Sinai which is the moon or human consciousness, that is the true enlightenment  

23 minutes ago, Khin said:

Well, most people believe in CREATOR because there is an illusion of freewill. There is an illusion of 'I' or 'You' and so that 'I' or 'You' is doing things, making choices. Therefore, without this 'I' or 'You', nothing will happen. In that case, there's a kind of mindset that this world wouldn't pop up out of nowhere. There must be someone who is just like 'You' or 'I', making choices, doing things.

In enlightenment case, all that beliefs flipped over. That's the hardest thing for most people. Many of my friends said it is very hard for them to take away their belief even though my explanations sound true for them. They said that it feels safe for them.

The Demiurge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g89tzZq98tw

Edited February 21, 2016 by Keyblade Viking

[Khin]

@Keyblade Viking "Shinning Light on Things" which Leo said was about awareness. Only one thought can happen at a time in awareness field. Awareness follow behind the senses. It disappears as soon as it appears too.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Khin
fix