Perceptions And Nature Of Reality

[momo]

If i close my eyes, will the room still be there ?

[Arkandeus]

depends, if you close your eyes and ask yourself if the room is still there,
then technically it is because the room is still in your awareness, the question itself creates the room

 

[momo]

@Arkandeus and if I don't ask ?

[Arkandeus]

18 minutes ago, momo said:

@Arkandeus and if I don't ask ?

then no there is no room!
it's tricky isn't it. it's a major belief to work on, that reality exists outside of our senses. 

there is only what you sense. 
it is pretty interesting to close your eyes and be interested in what that space actually is. 

let's say you close your eyes in front of a wall. 
how would you assert that there is a wall in front of you?you'd touch it. 
yet you would only sense the part of the wall that you touch, so you only assert that part of the wall you touch. 
it is impossible for you to assert the entire wall at once. 
so is the wall is really there when you close your eyes? if you sense a part of the wall with your hand how do you know if the rest of the wall is actually there? 
only what you sense can be known, only what you sense exists

it is this deep connection that has to be remembered, it is the key to unraveling the illusion, nothing has ever existed in your entire life that was not within your awareness.

does this ''outside world exist''? 
do other countries exist? you'd say yes, yet for you to be sure that a country exists you'd have to be there, with you as the center in that country,and in the very trip to that country, you'd have to be there, again, the center of everything. 

it has to be obvious after awhile, that you are the center of the universe, you've always been and you will always be. 
you don't travel to someplace, it is your surroundings that travel to you, like the wind gushing.  
 

once you believe it you will literally feel it, the world revolving around you, you'll feel it physically, it won't be some vague concept, you will literally feel the truth of it

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Arkandeus

[Leo Gura]

@momo If it is, you better see a doctor

[Loreena]

What if you just stopped labelling it as a room ? 

Would it still be there ?

Think

[momo]

15 hours ago, Arkandeus said:

then no there is no room!
it's tricky isn't it. it's a major belief to work on, that reality exists outside of our senses. 

there is only what you sense. 
it is pretty interesting to close your eyes and be interested in what that space actually is. 

let's say you close your eyes in front of a wall. 
how would you assert that there is a wall in front of you?you'd touch it. 
yet you would only sense the part of the wall that you touch, so you only assert that part of the wall you touch. 
it is impossible for you to assert the entire wall at once. 
so is the wall is really there when you close your eyes? if you sense a part of the wall with your hand how do you know if the rest of the wall is actually there? 
only what you sense can be known, only what you sense exists

it is this deep connection that has to be remembered, it is the key to unraveling the illusion, nothing has ever existed in your entire life that was not within your awareness.

does this ''outside world exist''? 
do other countries exist? you'd say yes, yet for you to be sure that a country exists you'd have to be there, with you as the center in that country,and in the very trip to that country, you'd have to be there, again, the center of everything. 

it has to be obvious after awhile, that you are the center of the universe, you've always been and you will always be. 
you don't travel to someplace, it is your surroundings that travel to you, like the wind gushing.  
 

once you believe it you will literally feel it, the world revolving around you, you'll feel it physically, it won't be some vague concept, you will literally feel the truth of it

 

@Arkandeus if I have a person next to me , will he be no where when I close my eyes ? 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by momo

[Arkandeus]

5 hours ago, momo said:

@Arkandeus if I have a person next to me , will he be no where when I close my eyes ? 

 

I have a better question for you momo. 

at what point is a person next to you? 
when does a person being next to you start and when does a person being next to you stop?

if you are aware that that person is there, that person will be there. 
if you let go of that awareness that person disappears. 
the truth has always been right in front of you
what are you not aware of, does not exist. 
there is nothing outside of your awareness

if I see someone on the street,I create life. If I hadn't seen they would've never existed. 

you could argue that people exist outside of my field of perception, but all that is, is a thought construct.  

the very fabric of life is not a concept, life itself has only been perceived by you, by your own awareness.
never by anyone else, every single thing you know about life has you in the center of it. 
every moment happened only while you were aware of it.

we're talking about an illusion made from infinite intelligence, it is absolutely normal to be completely deceived by it
and it to seem incredibly complex to unravel. 

the truth though, is that we create the world as we go. 
the truth is right there in our dreams, in front of our eyes. we dream up scenario's the same way we dream our life. 

 

there is not a single difference between a person in your dreams and a person in real life. 
they're both real and they're both dreams. 
that is the illusion of the veil. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Arkandeus

[Lauritz]

44 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

the truth though, is that we create the world as we go. 
the truth is right there in our dreams, in front of our eyes. we dream up scenario's the same way we dream our life. 

 

On a deeper level the dream of life creates the feeling of a perceiving one in the center. But actually you are not there. Part of the illusion is that this whole things revolves around an "I". 

On the one hand, it does not make sense to abandon the idea of other individuals experiencing this one illusion from different angles.  As physical reality is stable and observable so are other people. And if my properties are the same as other peoples, than I have to assume that they also have this same consciousness at their center. It is a concept. But it seems to apply to reality just as much as other concepts that we need to navigate the world and develop all the technology and knowledge that we have.

Not finding a direct experience of other peoples consciousness in ones (limited) experience, does not mean it does not exist. I think this is a trap one can easily fall into with self inquiry. It can help one to understand ones own mind and reveal illusions. But one is never able to go beyond the mind. For that, concepts are needed. And as long as they can be verified, they are valuable to transcend the boundaries of ones direct perception.

What I want to say is that you can argue for both sides, but in the end they will all be joined and contained within direct experience. The only difference is, the first one is something you can see, hear, touch or smell, and the other one you can think about. Ultimately, neither of those two ways to attain "knowledge" are any more real than the other. As "you" create reality, a solid concept can just be as much reality as any of the other senses.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Lauritz