Is The Point Of Self Inquiry Convincing Myself Im Not What I Think I Am Till Enlightenment?

[Viking]

self inquiry goes for me like this- who am i? i get the feeling of myself, realize its not me and doing that again and again.

do i simply do that until i Truly believe its not me? thats the point of self inquiry?

[ajasatya]

@Ilya self inquiry gets you to an uncomfortable state of uncertainty in which there's no words left to be said. get used to that state. stay with it until you become comfortable with silence.

[Viking]

@ajasatya exactly !! im in complete darkness about who i am. so whats the practice after that? continue to increase uncertainty by asking myself who am i?

[ajasatya]

3 hours ago, Ilya said:

@ajasatya exactly !! im in complete darkness about who i am. so whats the practice after that? continue to increase uncertainty by asking myself who am i?

after? there's no after. just live with it. get used to it.

you call it darkness but it's just a relative judgment. darkness or lightness, it doesn't matter. it feels uncomfortable because it's unusual.

[Shin]

3 hours ago, Ilya said:

@ajasatya exactly !! im in complete darkness about who i am. so whats the practice after that? continue to increase uncertainty by asking myself who am i?

The goal is to be so uncertain that you enter a "state" where you truly don't know, and from this state you will know.

 

[Joseph Maynor]

You have a lot of beliefs you hold without even realizing it that you need to discover, examine, and then realize that those beliefs -- although practically-speaking may be considered true or false -- are all existentially false.

The point of self-inquiry is to try to be reality stripped of all augmentation of these many beliefs, the content of which are all thought-stories.  So you wanna be reality without thought-story to do enlightenment work.  That's why Self-inquiry is essential.  You gotta look at all your beliefs about yourself and the world.

What's happening is that your reality is augmented by a lot of beliefs.  Those beliefs need to be rooted-out one by one.  And then you gotta change how you "be" or "are" in light of that belief removal.  So, this ain't no mere intellectual tea and crumpets exercise.  This is getting clearer about what is, and then being that.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Ilya Let go of asking who you are, and begin contemplating what you are.

[cetus]

6 hours ago, Ilya said:

self inquiry goes for me like this- who am i? i get the feeling of myself, realize its not me and doing that again and again.

do i simply do that until i Truly believe its not me? thats the point of self inquiry?

Waking- sleeping - and the sense of presence are all temporary states that have come upon me.  I am not these states. Nisargadatta

If you take it all the way, you see there is really no one to "truly believe it's not me". That would be just another state,  albeit an expanded one.

There will ALWAYS be more work. That's just the way it is. And it will continue until nothing remains.

[Viking]

@Nahm is there a point to contemplating what i am? shouldnt i just strip all of my beliefs and simply increase the state of uncertainty and what i am will simply come?

@Joseph Maynor how do i stumble upon these beliefs to get rid of them?

[Viking]

@ajasatya if there is just that state of uncertainty and no questions have to be asked, I would simply sit and do nothing essentially, simply sitting confused, wouldnt that trigger monkey mind? shouldnt i just continue to increase confusion?

[ajasatya]

@Ilya sit down. watch the question arising, gently bring your attention back to your breathing and watch the question go away. that's not confusion. you're just sitting. what could go wrong from there? why do you bug yourself so much?

[Viking]

@ajasatya I mean confusion as a positive thing, uncertainty about what i am. 

im doing the self inquiry leo's way, so I should do something actively, dont I? increasing that uncertainty by asking questions letting them be answered and realizing im not the answer, not focus on breathing like in a meditation.

[Nahm]

@Ilya Do you want to know what you are?  

[ansimuz]

Practically you are everything except what others (society, family, religions, goverment...) have told you. Get rid of those beliefs and there you are.

[Viking]

@Nahm sure I do, I meant to ask if contemplating what i am is the right way to do so, since as i understood the answer will come naturally when i strip away my ego

[ajasatya]

14 hours ago, Ilya said:

@ajasatya I mean confusion as a positive thing, uncertainty about what i am. 

im doing the self inquiry leo's way, so I should do something actively, dont I? increasing that uncertainty by asking questions letting them be answered and realizing im not the answer, not focus on breathing like in a meditation.

don't get caught by the follower mindset. not being responsible for yourself is a dangerous trap. if you feel that you should do something, do it. experience is extremely important. it's not like you're completely clueless about spirituality. you're not diving too deep in the ocean of ignorance anymore.

[Viking]

@ajasatya the problem is that i am a newbie, im only about a month into the practice.

in conclusion, what i should do for now is to increase uncertainty about who i am by that cycle of mindful questioning, making myself not sure who i am more and more and enlightenment will occur?

[Space]

@Ilya Sit down. Put aside all your life concerns and focus all of your attention on the inquiry for the period of time you choose. Commit to putting all your energy into it for this period. Like honestly, really commit to it. Don't be lazy. When you're mind wanders, which it will, don't judge yourself, but bring your attention right back to the inquiry. Set a simple but, more importantly, genuine intention to become conscious of what you are, believe in your intention and believe that it can be done. Really cultivate a desire to know what you are.

Then, bring your attention to the present moment. Get real focused and concentrated on the present moment and the process of observation (i.e. self-observation). Take a minute or so to just observe what it is in your direct experience. Realise that there isn't anything but your direct experience. So anything else that you think might exist is just a concept.

Then, ask yourself 'What Am I?'. Get a real, honest, genuine, answer. What do you honestly think you are right now. Honestly! Right now! Put aside all ideas and beliefs about what you are that you might have heard from Leo or read about on this forum. I say 'put aside' because your conceptual understanding of what you are is necessary in order to avoid wasting lots of time. But for the purposes of your inquiry, put everything aside, and start from scratch as though you've never heard of Nothingness or Consciousness or whatever. All you need is your direct experience.

When you have a genuine and really honest answer about what you think you are, then contemplate it. Can this thing, a body, a thought, a feeling, or whatever, be what I am? Is this thing I am aware of what I truly am? And obviously you don't just question your beliefs once, you question them many many many times.

[Viking]

@Space yes, that's what ive been doing, you described it very clear. the problem is that I got to a point where i simply dont know what i am so i cant get that honest answer. what do i do then? if i dont know and im not enlightened yet, does that mean that i still kinda identify with something and im not aware of it? and i should try to find that something? or should i try to reach that nothingness and realize thats me?

[Space]

1 hour ago, Ilya said:

@Space yes, that's what ive been doing, you described it very clear. the problem is that I got to a point where i simply dont know what i am so i cant get that honest answer. what do i do then? if i dont know and im not enlightened yet, does that mean that i still kinda identify with something and im not aware of it? and i should try to find that something? or should i try to reach that nothingness and realize thats me?

No no no! You DO believe you know what you are. If you didn't know what you are, then you would not be asking these questions. An intellectual not knowing is vaastly different from a real genuine experiential not knowing. That's very important to understand. 

So yes of course you are still identified with something. Most likely your body and your mind, and not the chair your sitting on. A while ago Leo said in other post something like 'put yourself in an imaginary situation where you've got a gun to your head, and the person holding the gun is gonna' pull the trigger unless you honestly tell them what the hell you think you are.' Put yourself in that situation. I mean, it's fairly obvious that you're identified with the body/mind, unless you are actually awake. My guess is that your not though. Just be honest with yourself. It's very important that you try to get very clear about what you believe yourself to be. 

You also need to get the idea of 'reaching that nothingness' out of your head. There's no going anywhere! It's all right here, right now.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Space