Enlightenment Pitfalls

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

@ajasatya dude I am totally confused now  so when you say you are one with everything and everybody. Do you identify as killer too? If you are reality itself is not that so?

as you read these words, the universe is reading itself.

as you think about what i say, the universe is thinking about what it just said to itself.

when person A kills person B, the universe kills itself.

i, ajasatya, typed this message. you received a message from the universe. and right now you're the universe reading its own message.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

as you read these words, the universe is reading itself.

as you think about what i say, the universe is thinking about what it just said to itself.

when person A kills person B, the universe kills itself.

i, ajasatya, typed this message. you received a message from the universe. and right now you're the universe reading its own message.

Man I just can't imagine why realising that can be relieving ... so universe killing itself is not bad? Then why will you as an "Enlightened" person would become sad witnessing A killing B if in reality universe kills itself and it means nothing to you because you are aware of that truth?

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  Probably you are asking if everything is happening just in the brain... I can tell you that everything can be explained in terms of brain activity. The only thing that scientists have no explanation for is the 'hard problem of conciousness'... Spirituality cannot give any verifiable proof for non-local conciousness either.

But if you are trying to understand these things, there is no scope in spirituality. And Science doesn't have a definite answer either.

I myself approach everything in scientific way. And I don't like believing in anything. But I can assure you that mindfulness works..

 

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, egoless said:

Man I just can't imagine why realising that can be relieving ... so universe killing itself is not bad? Then why will you as an "Enlightened" person would become sad witnessing A killing B if in reality universe kills itself and it means nothing to you because you are aware of that truth?

it is relieving because it's an endless dance. atoms collide, babies are born and then die someday. volcanoes explode and kill thousands of people. stars implode/explode and destroy planets around them. galaxies blow up and entirely new zones in the universe are being created right now.

if i witness a murder, i'll be sad for a while. sadness is part of the endless dance.

your attempt to go moral and judge the act of others won't get you anywhere. take care of your own suffering. dance with me.

[egoless]

@Shanmugam I am so lost man... I don't know what to do. It seems like I feel so much like Neo (that this is all fake) that I distrust almost everything and everyone... I feel like a prisioner whole my life.

[egoless]

@ajasatya yeah let's dance!  Music is the universal language to understand.

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  I would really recommend Sam Harris book 'Waking up -spirituality without religion'.. I think it will suit you well for your mindset and create a trust in spiritual practices... And continue your mindfuless practice  but don't worry too much about theories and concepts... Mindfulness is the best known cure for compulsive thinking..

[egoless]

@Shanmugam who are you?

@ajasatya and who are you?

do your best job to explain as far as intellectually possible.

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

@Shanmugam who are you?

@ajasatya and who are you?

do your best job to explain as far as intellectually possible.

I really don't have a  solid concept of who I am in my mind .....But when someone in daily life asks me who I am, I know what they want to know and I just answer them with my name, where I am from etc, just the usual reply.

Here is a poem for you:

Carrying the weight of past in my head
And dragging the scenes which were old and dead,
I ran to grab the bliss of the future;
The more I ran, the more was the torture..

The torture of the hedonic treadmill
Followed me as I continued uphill;
I was caught in the prison of craving
With tedious thoughts, my mind was raving.

I met an ugly old man on the way
who had a long thick beard with shades of grey.
His face was shining with heavenly bliss;
In his eyes I saw an endless abyss!

“What makes you so happy in this rat race?”,
I asked him as he slowly turned his face.
He replied,”The answer is within you!
The grand kingdom of God is within you!”

“That’s a joke”, I said “Are you kidding me?”.
“No!” He said, “Turn inward, you’ll become free!
You’ve made your own boundaries inside your mind,
You’ve closed your eyes and think you’ve become blind”.

I said, “How can I get out of this trap?
I want to find the way, give me the map”
He said, “You’re the way, the truth and the life!
Be still and know you’re that, and end this strife!

You’re not your body and you’re not your mind;
Not knowing the timeless truth makes you blind;
You’re not your story and you’re not your thoughts;
You’re not those age old, buried mental knots.

You’re not that chattering voice in your head;
You’re not anything that you did or said;
You’re not anything that you have or know
You’re the truth that is watching all this show!

You’re not anything that can be perceived;
You’re not an object that can be observed;
You’re the screen where the world is being played;
You’re the emptiness where the form is made.

You’re the one witnessing the mind and breath;
You’re one without two, beyond birth and death;
Like the air trapped in a small round bubble,
You feel separate which brings all the trouble.

Inquire inside and wake up from this dream!
Let truth alone shine like a bright white beam!
By inquiry, your illusions will break;
You’ll stop mistaking the rope for a snake”

Hearing these words stopped my thoughts for a while.
Looking in, I slowly began to smile.
I watched my thoughts as they slowly passed by;
I observed my mind like a secret spy.

For years, I contemplated on his words;
I watched my thoughts fly like a bunch of birds.
One day, I woke up and realized the truth;
Since then my life has been peaceful and smooth!

[egoless]

@Shanmugam hah nice one buddy  who's the author?

[Shanmugam]

@egoless thats a poem written by me

 

[egoless]

@Shanmugam Cool! So do you mean that I wrote it?

[ajasatya]

28 minutes ago, egoless said:

@ajasatya and who are you?

do your best job to explain as far as intellectually possible.

that's an impossible task. how does your tail feel?

[egoless]

@ajasatya it feels rested

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  You are just playing with words... Words are only pointers, and spiritual teaching is like a finger pointing to the moon. If someone is using his finger to point to the moon, you should not keep looking at the finger, instead you need to look at the moon..

But you are dissecting the finger and looking its cells under the microscope. You will not find the moon there.

Don't take things too literally.. Just keep practicing  what you are supposed to practice. It is only the practice that can clear your doubts.

 

[ajasatya]

@egoless there's a zen story with a man who wanted to be a disciple of the zen master bodhidharma. he asked bodhidharma to pacify his mind and bodhidharma said show me your mind and i will pacify it. the guy said i can't find it. bodhidharma then said there, i pacified it.

[Joseph Maynor]

@egoless The paradox of non-duality is that the practical truths still apply.  You gotta be both ego and non-ego, and neither.  Enlightenment is not divorced from egoic life.  Enlightenment and ego are two sides of the same coin.

[egoless]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@egoless The paradox of non-duality is that the practical truths still apply.  You gotta be both ego and non-ego, and neither.  Enlightenment is not divorced from egoic life.  Enlightenment and ego are two sides of the same coin.

May "enlightened" people still fall in love and have sex? What will they feel?

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Joseph Maynor]

@egoless

1 hour ago, egoless said:

May "enlightened" people still fall in love and have sex? What will they feel?

Yes.  Enlightenment isn't any different from real life.  The only difference is the enlightened person sees through many existentially false beliefs.  Enlightenment is the key to emotional mastery, to resilience.  You can't stop me if there's no me and there's no you.  And I can't get offended if there is no me.  I can't have any beliefs if there is no me.  And that includes limiting-beliefs.  I can't be depressed or neurotic if there is no me.  I can't transcend the ego if there is no me.  See?  Nothing means nothing about a separate sense of self.  Reality is one. You are entire reality believing  you are a piece of reality.  The illusion of ego is there, and none of us can escape it entirely.  All we can do is see through the illusion. This benefits our little monkey lives in an assortment of ways.  Most people lack emotional mastery because they cling very ignorantly to existentially false beliefs.  This is why enlightenment is a key element and threshold-guardian for true self-actualization work.  You gotta let go of your false beliefs about yourself which causes you to hold yourself back.  Enlightenment is a tool I find.  A tool for emotional mastery.  But it's the existential Truth too, not just a tool. Emotional mastery and life-purpose enable you to go out there and do true emotional labor and optimize your little monkey life to live a full, abundant life, where you are so abundant that you give back to humanity in a very beautiful way.  That's the view of enlightenment that resonates with me.  There is no existentially true way to live.  You are the music-maker with your life.  You are the dreamer of dreams.  Don't let anybody's theory of enlightenment make you forget that.  Reality is but a dream. Reality is truly free.  Reality laughs at our cute little beliefs and theories, even the ones about enlightenment.  So watch out.  There ain't no objectively right answer existentially.  Reality laughs at the rationalist paradigm trying to understand and cubby-hole it.  It's like trying to design a real human being via artificial intelligence.  Ain't never gonna happen.  Some engineers might believe this, but they are in la la land -- way off.  

Edited August 7, 2017 by Joseph Maynor