Enlightenment Pitfalls

[egoless]

I am following the teachings of Eckhart Tolle and he is the truely amazing teacher! The Problem is that I maybe misunderstood some of his ideas. I am trying to implement the Power of Now in the practice and become fully involved only in the presence. But while concentrating 100% on the presence I feel like I am loosing 99% of thinking ability. When my analytical and thinking mind is required  people notice that I am getting lost. Sometimes It interferes with my everyday life and job responsibilities. What am I doing wrong? Am I forcing this way too much and it should be more natural? How can I maintain the proper balance between Enlightenment practice and everyday ego life since I am not fully egoless yet?

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shin]

What is your job ?

What do you mean it interferes with your everyday life ?

[egoless]

17 minutes ago, Shin said:

What is your job ?

What do you mean it interferes with your everyday life ?

I am financial analyst. I mean that I get way too introverted and closed within my inner self. And my everyday life involves many practical communications which are very distant from the Enlightenment practice. 

It feels like I am the gladiator on the Arena who is trying to meditate...

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless Rather than focusing on the present moment, try to be a witness of the thought process.. As Eckhart says, listen to the voice in your head without any judgement, as if the thought process has got nothing to do with you.. I am not sure how effective trying to focus on present moment is, but being a non-judgemental witness definitely works.. And don't try to concentrate or suppress your thought process.. Because the main objective here is to get to know your mind, observe your mind as it is; this means you have to accept everything that arises in your mind as natural.

First, try to do it during the hours when you are not working.. You can try be a witness of your mind when you are taking bath, going for a walk, eating etc.  Then you can extend it to your working hours, but only during those times when you don't have to use your mind. You have to use your mind and thoughts actively when you have to use them, just like using our hands when it is necessary. It is the involuntary, uncontrollable thought process which is the problem.

[egoless]

@Shanmugam But if my true nature is presence itself how can I split it? If it is the only ultimate truth shouldn't it be effective always even when I do analytic work? Why does pure observation fail me when I need to engage in analytical thinking and discussion with someone. It feels like identitying myself with my mind again becomes the most helpful in those situations because being only observer feels like I am out of control.

[Nahm]

@egoless Life, life, life....sleep....wake up - no momentum, no thought momentum. Ready for more! .......Repeat!

 

 

Need to stop all the thinking, all its momentum?

Meditate

 

Eventually, you will have little need for "meditation", because you will have no thought momentum. 

 

Sleep becomes your meditation.

 

Want to get there?

Do what Leo has been telling you to do.

All of it.

No more excuses.

 

die

lose your mind

 

[egoless]

@Nahm You did not adress the issue stated here... The issue is that we as human beings living in this world call it illusionary or not need analytical thinking and it sometimes requires recollection of the past experiences... Or will you tell me that you don't have job, don't communicate with anybody and sit there enlightened in the cave? 

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless You don't have to identify with your mind when you do analytical work or when you talk.. Your conversation can automatically arise out of the presence, without any identification, once your identification with your mind falls off.. You can still use your mind and not get identified with its contents..

Also, your mind is already split and there are lots of conflicts. Differentiating pure witness from the thoughts is initially necessary, which will help in bringing detachment.. That is how any spiritual process can start, no other way. At one point, even this distinction between witness and the witnessed will disappear. (but it may take many years). That is when you will truly start feeling the oneness. 

Normally, a person feels one with his thoughts because of identification. But this is not the oneness of non-duality. It is the sense of a separate self which creates duality. It claims ownership for certain things and regards the rest of things as different.. But when the sense of a separate self dissolves, there is no ownership or the sense of a doer or an agent. Since there is no distinction of a 'me' and the 'other' after liberation, your perception of reality becomes non-dual.

[egoless]

@Shanmugam I understand your point, but the paradox is that first we need to split "you" into higher and lower being in order to then achieve oneness eight? The initial process of disidentifying yourself from the ego you thought were you whole your life creates so many confusions. On that level of enlightenment it seems like there are two of "you" - your ego and pure awareness. for a person who did not achieve enlightenment yet and does not sees the whole picture it seems like that awareness is out of control of ego's life and becomes only observer without any right to make decisions. Thus it feels like you loose your free will...

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[ajasatya]

@egoless you gotta develop the wisdom to find your middle way. i am an academic. i work with computer science and i live in peace.

why is that? because thinking is not wrong. thinking causes suffering when you cannot choose to shut it down. when i'm working, oh man, my focus ability is incredibly strong. and when i want to experience peace of mind, oh man, i'm able to silence reality.

it's a matter of training. you have to train hard. live your life as you need to live but plan to go to mindfulness retreats.

during work, the mind can go horse because the work might require horse power. but don't confuse yourself with the confusion. you're not the confusion. you're just doing work.

[Nahm]

@egoless LOL! LOVE YOU MAN! 

I own multiple businesses. I have a wife and three kids. I gig weekly.

 I am also in that cave, the bliss. How?

 

Here is what you're missing........

you are thinking.

You can not think you way to expanded awareness.

Only awareness expands awareness.

 

Change your avatar name to something more honest. Feel the bliss in that action from honesty and self awareness. 

Don't think about it. 

[egoless]

 

 

@ajasatya Good advice man! But unfortunately  I can not find that middle path yet. I am the type of person to fully throw myself in one direction. And when I discovered the path of Enlightenment I got 100% commited to it I can't do it otherwise. I will loose the motivation. That's why I always find it hard to balance things...

@Nahm my avatar name represents my goal not my current state. And with all this happening in your life how do you do your Enlightenment work when it needs so much soltitude? But if you decide to - explain it in a practical way - not just abstract sentences

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

12 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Shanmugam I understand your point, but the paradox is that first we need to split "you" into higher and lower being in order to then achieve oneness eight? The initial process of disidentifying yourself from the ego you thought were you whole your life creates so many confusions. On that level of enlightenment it seems like there are two of "you" - your ego and pure awareness. for a person who did not achieve enlightenment yet and does not sees the whole picture it seems like that awareness is out of control of ego's life. Thus it feels like you loose your free will...

The split is not between a higher being and a lower being... The split is between being and non-being, i.e the permanent witness and the impermanent world of thoughts, feelings etc. And this split is a lot better than dealing with thousands of conflicting thoughts and intentions as an egoic self.  Rather than calling it as a split, which has negative connotation, think of it as discrimination. The word 'discrimination' is the right word here..

The free will is still there.. The free will is not going to be  lost, but the one who thinks he has the 'free will' will be lost... But there will be a hesitation, because for ego it may seem that its power is being taken away from it. That is exactly what is supposed to happen. If you want to become free, want to get rid of suffering, then this is the way to go about it.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Shanmugam

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

@ajasatya Good advice man! But unfortunately  I can not find that middle path yet. I am the type of person to fully throw myself in one direction. And when I discovered the path of Enlightenment I got 100% commited to it I can't do it otherwise. I will loose the motivation. That's why I always find it hard to balance things...

i completely understand you. you're somewhat like me. you know what i did? i quit my job and lived as a zen monk for a while. i was single and the option was available. so i chose the easiest option.

i hope you can find your balance.

[egoless]

Just now, ajasatya said:

i completely understand you. you're somewhat like me. you know what i did? i quit my job and lived as a zen monk for a while. i was single and the option was available. so i chose the easiest option.

i hope you can find your balance.

I wish I could do it but from my current state it would be just pure leap of belief. And I as a rational person don't like seeking the Truth based on belief. That's why I did not choose the path of religion. I still did not empirically witnessed the Truth myself. If I decide to do what you did I should be 100% sure that the path of Enlightenment - what we call is the only path of the Truth. It will mean that I will have to sacrifice almost everything thus I need to be sure...

[egoless]

@Shanmugam who has the free will then? How can Nothingness have free will if it is the opposite of everythingness the it should be all predetermined right? To fill the everythingness gap within the Nothingness

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  You are asking  'who' has the free will...  That is exactly what you have to inquire.. You can try to find out 'who' the agent is, the agent who thinks he has the free will. This inquiry is called 'self-inquiry'.. But instead of doing it as an inquiry, try to do it by witnessing the mind. It is easy and works better than any other approach for many people.

And there is no belief in anything that is required.. Observing your mind, non-judgmentally doesn't require any beliefs..You just need to have an attitude of a scientist who observes anything objectively. When you look at the contents of your mind, you also have to approach them objectively, because anything that can be observed cannot be you; since you are the one who is observing it. Also, don't try to analyze the thoughts, just observe them with a curiosity to know what the mind does. And this non-judgemental, alert observation is also called as 'mindfulness', which has received great clinical and scientific attention. 

If you speculate on concepts such as 'free will', 'ego' etc, you may not get anywhere...But if you are skeptical about this whole spirituality thing, I would suggest you to read 'Waking up' by Sam Harris.

Here is my article on Science and enlightenment which you may find useful: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/is-there-a-scientific-evidence-for-spiritual-enlightenment/

 

[egoless]

@Shanmugam what if my self enquiry brings me to that: I am my inner voice who is self aware. 

Or what if I am the brain which is self aware with different receptors in the body

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  Ok.. If you are satisfied with such a verbal answer, then there shouldn't be any problem... Just go ahead and live your life as usual, why bother about spirituality at all?

Self-inquiry is not meant to produce any verbal answers.. It is termed as self-inquiry because of the investigation that you do with what you call as 'I'.. And the need for such an investigation arises only when what you think as 'you' bothers you too much and makes you suffer. 

But if you haven't seen the futilely of protecting, enhancing and fulfilling this egoic identity, then it is better to not to worry about spirituality. If you are already happy and satisfied, then why bother with spiritual practice at all?

Let me ask you, what is your motivation behind doing what Eckhart Tolle asks you to do? 

[egoless]

@Shanmugam because I am huge overthinker. And living in the moment and feeling presence helps that compulsive thinking. Plus I see the great wisdom in Ekhart's speeches.

Edited August 7, 2017 by egoless