Understanding Absolute Infinity

[egoless]

Hello, Community! After rewatching several times Leo's mind-blowing episodes about absolute infinity I am still left with many questions. First of all, let's begin with simple basic ones: If reality involves absolutely any possibility then it should things like vampires, werewolves, every religion gods and etc. etc. right? Where are they? in other universes across the black holes? Does absolutely everything involve alternate universes where we make any possible decisions different from our current ones? What happens after our physical death do we convert in other perspective or we become absolutely no perspective aka God aka absolute infinity? If absolute infinity is true and there is no "spiritual life" after death then is not it the wisest idea to live this life to its fullest? What makes Leo believe this is the ultimate Truth, why is he so sure about it? He always answers this question with - "see it for yourself"... But Leo, what if we don't want to risk playing with such a powerful hallucinogenic drug as 5 Meo... other techniques require so much time and life will totally pass by the time when we might get enlightened with these slow Techniques. 

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, egoless said:

But Leo, what if we don't want to risk playing with such a powerful hallucinogenic drug as 5 Meo... other techniques require so much time and life will totally pass by the time when we might get enlightened with these slow Techniques.

Then you shall remain unaware, as 99.9999% of people are, for that very reason.

It's called a leap of faith for good reason. First you die, then you see what's up. You don't get to plumb "the mind of God" and stay yourself. The weight of that kind of knowledge would send an unprepared grown man running for Mommy.

If you're not willing to face fear of death, then your mind has you by the balls, doesn't it? Sure it does! It can manipulate you into believing any kind of nonsense just by hiding the truth behind that one little fear.

Trying to interpret Absolute Infinity at your current level of understanding and consciousness is bound to lead to all kinds of nonsense images of what it is like. It's not about vampires and black holes. It's more about how you constructed all of reality so that you could exist as your present self. But that won't make sense to you either. How could you have constructed all of reality????

Do you realize the significance of the questions you are asking? You are asking to understand ALL OF REALITY! ALL OF IT! Beyond life and death, before the Big Bang. You're asking to know the "mind of God".

And yet you're unwilling to invest a couple thousand hours to do the work? Well then, you're not really serious about your inquiry.

Your inquiry should bring you to the brink of tears. You should be willing to abandon food, sex, money, fame, family, friends, work, media, home, culture, science, religion, and everything else. If you were willing to do all that, then you'd be demonstrating the proper attitude of someone who cares about Truth.

For all the disbelievers, I specifically went out of my way to find and promote 5-MeO-DMT. It is the most direct and scientific method of glimpsing the Absolute within 15 minutes. It will cut your learning curve by a factor of x1000 or more. And yet people still come up with excuses. You've been handed the magic pill to infinity, and yet, there's always a good excuse for staying yourself.

Getting enlightened has never been easier. The problem is, no one really wants it. Hell, even I barely want it and I've glimpsed is fully glory. It's just so big.

[Azrael]

14 minutes ago, egoless said:

If reality involves absolutely any possibility then it should things like vampires, werewolves, every religion gods and etc. etc. right? Where are they? in other universes across the black holes? Does absolutely everything involve alternate universes where we make any possible decisions different from our current ones?

You have to see that every realm of reality like our normal "waking state", "dreaming state", "sleeping state" comes with certain dynamics that shape what can exist in these realms. It's like every of these realms is like a frame through which certain pictures are possible because of the nature of the frame.

Now, realize that your normal waking state is just one of these frames. It can see, hear, feel, touch etc. and that's it. There could be an infinite collection infinitely combined of these way's to perceive that would shape infinite worlds out of nothingness that would include literally everything you can ever think of. The vampire sits right in front of you right now. You just don't have the frame to see it. And if you had, it could be as real as a tree. Contemplate that.

22 minutes ago, egoless said:

What happens after our physical death do we convert in other perspective or we become absolutely no perspective aka God aka absolute infinity? If absolute infinity is true and there is no "spiritual life" after death then is not it the wisest idea to live this life to its fullest?

I'd strongly suggest that you don't have a body that can die. If you realize that and go through that experience a couple of times with psychedelics (you'll be totally shocked if you do) you'll see that merely your current frame ends. Your perceptions will go away and you'll begin to realize who you really are. Because something will still remain because it was never birthed in life nor will it ever die out of life. What happens then? I don't know. Probably a lot of different stuff for a lot of different individual frames that come to an end. Maybe these frames are connected and undergo development. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they just die of and nothing happens, until another one comes on. Maybe. You'll see. But whatever happens will be fine because you cannot die. Because you are God. G - o motherfuckin' d.

You'll live your life how you're supposed to live it. It's different for every one. Don't worry, you'll find your way. But as soon as you try to mark out an general case for every one, you'll fail. That one doesn't exist. Because if it did, all the subjective ones couldn't exist - although they do.

29 minutes ago, egoless said:

What makes Leo believe this is the ultimate Truth, why is he so sure about it? He always answers this question with - "see it for yourself"... But Leo, what if we don't want to risk playing with such a powerful hallucinogenic drug as 5 Meo... other techniques require so much time and life will totally pass by the time when we might get enlightened with these slow Techniques. 

Dude, if you don't wanna do it, don't. There's no problem. Nobody's pointing fingers here and laughing. But don't expect to ever know what it feels like to be in space when you don't actually want to fly in space with a rocket. Is it scary? Of course it is. It's outer space. Will you ever be able to get even a glimpse of it when you don't go. No. Simply no.

Because to experience absolute infinity you have to go through a membrane that we call death. Now in front of this membrane (personally for you) there are all kinds of fears, daemons, stories, all the good stuff. And all of them will rush your way if you are on the way to cross the membrane. And they'll try to hold you down. And only the one who goes through that will be able to pass the membrane and experience absolute infinity. For one it might be easier, for another one it will never be achievable by "conscious will". The point is, to even get there you need the power of something as strong as 5-MeO-DMT. And even then it's not an easy ride.

You can meditate for the next 40 years (which is great and you should do that because it helps on so many levels). But even then I seriously doubt that you get a glimpse of this experience because it's so different. It's so alien. There is no tool in your intellectual tool box to make sense of it. Maybe you do, there certainly are people who did it that way. It's your choice.

[egoless]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're not willing to face fear of death, then your mind has you by the balls, doesn't it? Sure it does! It can manipulate you into believing any kinds of nonsense just by hiding the truth behind that one little fear.

@Leo Gura himself! I have been following you since the beginning and it has been the fantastic journey. Let me tell you a bit about myself and you will know my readiness to see how deep the rabbit hole really is. I am 22 now and since my early teens, I've always felt that something was wrong with this world. I was always a huge loner and outcast because no one really understood me. I had to adapt in several ways to survive in this "world of corporations".  I came up with the similar theory to yours when I was 13-14 years old but did not have enough proofs like you do now. The movie Matrix has been my favorite movie of all time and almost every day I wake up with "that" feeling like Neo. You really maybe Morpheus to us. I hope you are!  Now you are offering me a choice: the Red pill or the Blue pill. But Leo : )... what if it only leads to the second layer of delusion? There is a theory in Matrix that Neo actually did not break out of Matrix and so called "Real world" was created by Machines themselves as the second layer of protection. What if it was created as the second layer of prison for more curious ones like me and you? What if you were mistakenly broken through the second layer too? What makes you so sure about the ultimate Truth? You always keep repeating to question everything and I always agree on that. Why did not you question that experience of enlightenment on 5 Meo DMT? If you did what was the real proof for you other than you felt it which also might be unreal? You are trying to grasp the whole reality from within the reality with the aid of the substance within this reality... Is not it so?

 

P.S I only mentioned the Matrix as an example. I don't mean it in a direct way that machines have created our reality of course.  ------ However still why not a possibility --- 

Edited August 3, 2017 by egoless

[Dodo]

@Azrael I will be having my first psychedelic trip end of this year, but I don't even have desire to reach absolute infinity. I feel like my current experience is absolute infinity (or at least infinity) already and I'm just not appreciating it enough. I should probably work on being grateful.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Dodo

[cetus]

8 hours ago, Azrael said:

Because to experience absolute infinity you have to go through a membrane that we call death

@AzraelJust thinking out loud here. What do you think about this?  Could that membrane you speak of be the mind itself? The very thing that keeps me-me and you-you. And when the mind with all it's associations and identifications is transcended, all that would remain would be pure consciousness. Which of course is infinite. Leo himself said 5-MEO-dmt was like experiencing 'pure consciousness'. This is why I ask.

When I think about it, transcending or relinquishing the mind wouldn't be a far stretch of what we refer to as death or dying. Mind does contain all our 'valuable assets' as a self as all the experiences, memories, emotions, ect that makes us what we are as a person. Could it all be that simple? That enlightenment is the ability to transcend the mind?  That would explain too about surrender being a huge factor in all this. Surrendering of the mind along with all it's personal content so that all that remains is pure/infinite consciousness. If this is reasonably true, than the formula for enlightenment, or even experiencing Samadhi would simply be the practice of relinquishing mind though surrender. I know that is so easy to say, but to actually do it is quite another story. But understanding enlightenment that simply does put it within reach. Even if it is just conceptually.  We are already mind happing within consciousness right this moment. So we are experiencing both mind and consciousness right now. So it is all right here at our fingertips already. We need just to take the mind factor out of that equation so that all that remains is pure consciousness. And that itself is really just a choice of when you are ready.

I never experienced 5-meo-dmt. Would it be fair than to say that 5meo completely washes away the mind for a little while? So that everything beyond mind can be freely experienced without limitations, hesitations, judgements, constructs, partitions, fears, ect, ect, ect that exist only in the mind?

Please feel free to give me pointers here so I can put this into a clear perspective. I'd like to get to that 'Chewy center of the Tootsie Roll Pop' that is enlightenment. But I gotta get through the hard candy coating of the mind first. Even if it's just one lick at a time. haha

[Leo Gura]

@cetus56 Imagine that lollipop is your head. Now we take a nuclear bomb and detonate it inside there, and the candy shards scatter out into space and to the edge of the known universe.

That would still be infinitely smaller than Absolute Infinity as seen on a breakthrough dose of 5-MeO

[Azrael]

4 hours ago, Dodo said:

@Azrael I will be having my first psychedelic trip end of this year, but I don't even have desire to reach absolute infinity. I feel like my current experience is absolute infinity (or at least infinity) already and I'm just not appreciating it enough. I should probably work on being grateful.

You shouldn't aim to go to absolute infinity with your first trip. Go in slow steps. Start slow and work yourself up. Otherwise you'll just get scared and never do it again.

[egoless]

@Azrael I've read your Enlightenment story. What is the point of everyday life for you after your Enlightenment? Did you acquire more love to people?

[Azrael]

@cetus56, interesting thoughts!

3 hours ago, cetus56 said:

Could that membrane you speak of be the mind itself?

it's more than that. Let's say that the mind for this illustration is your capacity to conceptualize. So it produces thoughts, feelings, even sensations (they are glued to concepts so deeply we don't even recognize it as conceptual). Passing through the membrane of course releases all that, blows it up until it's gone. But that's not all in my experience. When you go to absolute infinity the membrane flips inside out. Meaning that everything you know is seen as relative and through that your identity also flips inside out. You realize that you are absolutely infinite and that everything finite you ever perceived is just an relative aspect of it.

It flips the whole dream inside out, the way how your perceive everything and your identity as a whole. Think of it that way. Every way you know something right now, doesn't exist there any more. It's the opposite. And this goes for every thing you can every perceive. So it changes everything, literally.

3 hours ago, cetus56 said:

Could it all be that simple? That enlightenment is the ability to transcend the mind?

Depends on how we define transcend. In my own personal experience it was that before my awakening everything I cared about was my mind, how it worked, how it saw the world, whether it felt good or bad, what it thought, why it thought, what emotions it produced, why I couldn't be that way and why I was another way ... After my awakening I forgot that I even had a mind. It still does its job but it's like the door in my apartment. I use it when I need it and then its very useful, all of the other time it is just being a mind. Doing its mind thing. Maybe having thoughts, maybe not. Integrating past stuff, organizing future stuff, resting and not doing any stuff. But it doesn't go around screaming and crying and being offended and so and so no more. It's just doing its thing like the door does its thing when I use it. It doesn't resist itself no more.

3 hours ago, cetus56 said:

Would it be fair than to say that 5meo completely washes away the mind for a little while?

As said above, it's a part of it. But there is more to it. It's still just a symptom of a way bigger thing that is happening.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Azrael I've read your Enlightenment story. What is the point of everyday life for you after your Enlightenment? Did you acquire more love to people?

I wouldn't say more love, but more compassion. But before I go into this - please realize that this is a symptom of it. It doesn't have to do anything with enlightenment at all. It may be so, that the clearer your understanding gets the more lovely you get - maybe, maybe not. I'm still young, I have a very black humor, I like tasty food, I do dumb shit. That didn't change. On the opposite, I am even more happy doing this.

So my character didn't change, the thoughts went down to like 20-30% compared to what I thought before. Basically because all of the thoughts that consistently come back to you are gone. So the unique ones remain. Through that, you still think the same. But with less drama. One worry isn't bad and doesn't feel bad. But having the same worry 20-50 times over one day, resisting it and feeling bad emotions every time is a horror show. This changed for me a lot. With little and big things.

So yeah, more compassionate. If someone is stuck in his thinking and cannot get out I sometimes get sad inside for him because I can see why he struggles and I'd like to help him. This sadness doesn't feel bad though, real sadness doesn't in my experience. It's one of the most intimate experiences to have. I'm always happy to see sadness come around. Because it's so pure.

My point of everyday life is doing my shit. Living my life, being passionate about my studies and my work, loving being around my friends, being thrilled to visit Vancouver in a few weeks and all the other stuff. It's basically the same life I had before - minus me wanting to get away from every situation I'm in, minus the horror movies in my head, minus resisting emotions and being stuck plus realizing what is going on here. Or at least recognizing who I am. I don't know everything what is going on here.

So yeah, actually these days I begin to fathom what is really happening. I still don't, really. Because it's so different and I still need to make sense of it. But when I have, I'll write a new post and talk about it. I have come up with a few metaphors and ideas, but it's still very foreign for me.

[egoless]

@Azrael I am insane over thinker myself so I can relate to that. I mean when you realize that you don't exist and only reality does it should be so mind blowing that you would literally die. That's what I remember Leo saying. So I just don't understand I can't relate how can you continue living in your life perspective after that? I also don't like idea that free will does not exist. I think reality is like that (this is my theory and only): Reality is absolute infinity since it can not have limits. something to have limits should be limited from "outside" thus making it also a part of reality. I also believe that it is infinite when zoomed in and zoomed out and I agree with Leo on the part that everything is made of nothing. This absolute infinity is experiencing itself through limited versions of perspectives aka us. but this experience is totally free and unscripted thus making it open for any possibilities... But as I said this is job done by my intellect and only, I don't know what happens after 5-Meo. But as I mentioned before Can you really grasp the whole reality with the help of the substance within this reality?

Edited August 3, 2017 by egoless

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, egoless said:

I mean when you realize that you don't exist and only reality does it should be so mind blowing that you would literally die. That's what I remember Leo saying. So I just don't understand I can't relate how can you continue living in your life perspective after that? 

Yeah, I mean this happens to people. Look at Eckhart Tolle, he sat on a bench for like two years after it. I think it really depends on how you go about it. If you consciously seek this and read up about it, have your first experiences with meditation, psychedelics and on your own, you are slowly brought to it. And you think you know at some point what it will be like. Well you don't, but at least you are prepared for this to happen. Although you can't really, but you get the idea.

There a difference being a soldier that trained for years to be in real combat and your mom going to combat with no training at all. For both it's a complete new experience that no one really couldn't fathom before, but the soldier's odds to get along are way higher than your mom's. It's somehow relateble to that.

Also realize that your character doesn't change. It may open up, some things will go, some will be new, but your individual core, how you talk, what you think, how you think, your preferences etc. stay the same. Mostly. So it's not that you turn into this passionless, non-thinking, completely wise transcended master in one day. It's a slow and gradual transition.

[egoless]

@Azrael Leo mentioned that when you get truelly Enlightened then your ego completely dies. Then how does your charachter stay? Is not your charachter, passions dreams bound to your Ego?

[Leo Gura]

@egoless Since ego was an illusion the whole time, it had really nothing to do with anything. Including character, passions, etc.

It's like asking, what would happen if we amputated your 3rd arm? Nothing! Because you never had a 3rd arm to begin with. You just got confused and thought you did.

[Dodo]

10 hours ago, Azrael said:

You shouldn't aim to go to absolute infinity with your first trip. Go in slow steps. Start slow and work yourself up. Otherwise you'll just get scared and never do it again.

Do I even have a choice? I just take the dosage and let go as far as I know right? The rest is up to God

Also I think that being stuck in a job you dont like is more scary than any trip and I lived through that!! Im rdy :-D :-D 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Dodo

[Joseph Maynor]

I see it without psychedelics.  Not trying to brag by any means.  Here's the paradox --  it's both the most complicated and least complicated thing ever✌?

You gotta experience what all this poetry is pointing you to.  The infinite field of oneness.  The conceptionless present field of awareness.  Be it.  You gotta be it.  Turn the conceptual mind off and be it.

The finite and the infinite are one.  Start to see how you and God are both distinct and the same.  Another paradox.  But again you gotta be this, the theory is just pointing you to be the Truth.  Even seeing the truth is too conceptual.  You are the Truth.  Nothing is hidden. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[egoless]

Since English is not my main language I get confused sometimes. Can someone explain on an intellectual level what the reality and Enlightenment is? As far as words can go and if it is The same experience for everyone? Do they realise the same Truth? When we talk about the Enlightenment is it same what buddha experienced?

Edited August 4, 2017 by egoless

[Dodo]

15 minutes ago, egoless said:

Since English is not my main language I get confused sometimes. Can someone explain on an intellectual level what the reality and Enlightenment is? As far as words can go and if it is The same experience for everyone? Do they realise the same Truth? When we talk about the Enlightenment is it same what buddha experienced?

Sure I'll have a go

It's realising the world is a web of beliefs construct, that only experience is real (there is no world ourside you), finding that the experiencer (you) doesn't exist (is nothing, is empty),  leaving us with the truth which is relatively absolute and absolutely relative  at the same time.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Dodo

[egoless]

@Dodo If the world is a web of bieliefs who is the believer?

if I call that limited perspective I have on reality "Me" does me still do not exist? Explain.

Is the main idea that being and not being is the same in reality? Nothing exists in reality? And nothing feels exactly like everything?