Defining Words That I Don't Understand

[charlie cho]

Does the universe Mean God?

And does the universe mean existence also?

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by charlie cho

[TruthSeeker]

Its complicated

 

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

Does the universe Mean God?

And does the universe mean existence also?

 

All of these words are often labels used synonymously for referring to the divine mystery of creation. They are ultimately labels and metaphors for this phenomena that is impossible to convey through language. But they are also used in different ways too. Sometimes existence just means that something exists. Sometimes God means Zues, Thor, or a man in the clouds. Sometimes the universe refers to space with planets and stars in it. So, the words are confusing. 

[Pierre]

For most religious people, God is a supernatural entity, outside the universe.

If you tell them that God is the universe, they will take you for a horrible pantheist !

As to existence...any existence implies the whole universe, so yes.

[Ramu]

Actually, you ARE the Universe.  You are consciousness so therefore the universe is self aware.

[Gerhard]

On 19/2/2016 at 0:31 AM, Ramu said:

Actually, you ARE the Universe.  You are consciousness so therefore the universe is self aware.

Why do you think that Ramu? Why ARE we the universe, instead of a subset of its parts?

[Ramu]

1 hour ago, Gerhard said:

Why do you think that Ramu? Why ARE we the universe, instead of a subset of its parts?

Part of the reason is because I've had glimpses behind the curtainin the form of synchronicity.  I also have the experience of observing my thoughts and emotions as a Witness to them.  I didn't come up with this stuff by myself but in meditation which calms the "popcorn maker" mind, after being in silence I feel a presence that's silent and very subtle.  Eckart Tolle mentioned in A New Earth that ego will always fight to keep itself intact and to do that it creates a sense of separation.  Its "me" and "them'.  However if you detach yourself from egos mind and sense of self you realize through the Witness something greater than the egoic mind could ever be.  What is this Witness?  What is this Silent Observer?    Its Consciousness, your True Self.  Through my physically manifested nervous system the Universe (or Consciousness) is seeing itself.  To quote a passage from Chris Grosso's Indie Spiritualist, "..'The personality is the costume of The Self.  The mind is a mask, a facade.  What is shining through the senses, seeing itself through you?  The Universe sees itself through our eyes.  The universe is shining through our nervous system and to have this perspective takes work, it takes effort.  There's a lot of conditioning that needs to be stripped away.'. 

I recommend reading The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer for more perspective on this fascinating topic.  However no words can ever do justice to Being.  I simply Am.

[Gerhard]

1 minute ago, Ramu said:

Part of the reason is because I've had glimpses behind the curtainin the form of synchronicity.  I also have the experience of observing my thoughts and emotions as a Witness to them.  I didn't come up with this stuff by myself but in meditation which calms the "popcorn maker" mind, after being in silence I feel a presence that's silent and very subtle.  Eckart Tolle mentioned in A New Earth that ego will always fight to keep itself intact and to do that it creates a sense of separation.  Its "me" and "them'.  However if you detach yourself from egos mind and sense of self you realize through the Witness something greater than the egoic mind could ever be.  What is this Witness?  What is this Silent Observer?    Its Consciousness, your True Self.  Through my physically manifested nervous system the Universe (or Consciousness) is seeing itself.  To quote a passage from Chris Grosso's Indie Spiritualist, "..'The personality is the costume of The Self.  The mind is a mask, a facade.  What is shining through the senses, seeing itself through you?  The Universe sees itself through our eyes.  The universe is shining through our nervous system and to have this perspective takes work, it takes effort.  There's a lot of conditioning that needs to be stripped away.'. 

I recommend reading The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer for more perspective on this fascinating topic.  However no words can ever do justice to Being.  I simply Am.

I agree with most of your points - but I don't see why after realizing there is no ego we necessarily assume anything else about our being. Saying "I simply am", YES! Why do you then also say "Through my physically manifested nervous system the Universe (or Consciousness) is seeing itself." Another option is the universe creates a derivative system (you) which conceptualises a simpler version of the universe (and this concept is actually an illusion. How do you know that your concept of being the universe observing itself isn't an illusion just like the ego used to be). That seems to be the case to me, although I wouldn't declare fact either way.

[Ramu]

2 hours ago, Gerhard said:

I agree with most of your points - but I don't see why after realizing there is no ego we necessarily assume anything else about our being. Saying "I simply am", YES! Why do you then also say "Through my physically manifested nervous system the Universe (or Consciousness) is seeing itself." Another option is the universe creates a derivative system (you) which conceptualises a simpler version of the universe (and this concept is actually an illusion. How do you know that your concept of being the universe observing itself isn't an illusion just like the ego used to be). That seems to be the case to me, although I wouldn't declare fact either way.

I definitely see your point of view.  Keep in mind that I'm not anti mind.  We need our minds to operate in the physical world.  I would also go so far to say (and most reductionists would rip me to shreds for saying this), that our mind is a product of brain.  25 years ago as a college undergraduate studying psychology I was die hard set in stone against religion or any kind of spirituality, concepts I regarded as fluff and with contempt.  It took several experiences of "glimpsing behind the curtain" for me to realize that there was something going on, something bigger than my concept of self or the world I experienced.  On one occasion I had a peculiar feeling come over me.  I had just come back home from my first day at a new job.  I cracked open a beer and mused about my day..I then had the strange sensation that Something was observing my thoughts.  I had never experienced it before and soon after I dismissed it.  Looking back at those experiences of synchronicity and The Witness I was starting to awaken.  However I didn't know I was awakening and I certainly wasn't "seeking" anything.  Now I consider myself awake.  I don't consider myself enlightened and honestly can't even attempt to intellectualize the concept.  However I have been doing a lot of meditation and reading.  One thing I've read about is the concept of being a nobody.  Examples:  if people are gathered around giving their opinions, resist the urge to jump in and state yours.  If someone slights you with a negative comment (name calling, snarky comment), ignore the temptation to respond in kind with a retort.  Now that being said you will experience a shrinking of your pride, but then you will experience a feeling of IMMENSE expansion.  I read this in a book by Eckart Tolle.  Now its fine to read about such comments and quite another to experience them.  The same with intellectualizing that you are consciousness or you are the Universe.  I had an AMAZING realization this weekend.  It involved a supervisor at work neglecting to discipline someone for being late.  She couldn't discipline this person for being late because she is constantly late herself (and very lazy).  I was involved in covering for the late employee.  At some point she made a below the breath barely audible comment calling me a "baby", for noticing her hypocritical behavior.  What occurred to me is that she hadn't insulted ME at all.  I realized that if I am indeed Consciousness, and if my True Self  is indeed Formless, Eternal and Infinite than no words at all directed at Form could affect my True Self.  This hit me like a ton of bricks.  Its through these insights that my intuition tells me I'm realizing Truth, no matter how agonizingly long it takes.  In the end, a unbelievable feeling of freedom and peace prevails.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Ramu
Misspelling, clarification