Instead Of Actualized.org, Why Don't We Call This Place Conceptualized.org?

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

This was literally my biggest insight during a long beach walk on LSD. 

Cheers y'all happy sunday d:-)

[Prabhaker]

@Shrek_Of_Justice

You have learned a few wrong things. To destroy that wrong learning you will need learning. It is as if you have got a thorn in your foot and you need another thorn to take it out. The other thorn is as much a thorn as the first one, but it helps. 

[Arman]

cos we finna actualize

[Echoes]

 

@Shrek_Of_Justice

Leo will interpret these threads as a sign of the universe to go and live in a cave!  

Conceptualizing is a brilliant thing. Think of what a great instrument it is when used properly: You have the ability to create whole worlds, worldviews, philosophies, perspectives, metaphors, jokes, guidances out of a spectrum of symbols and signifiers; shared in their understandings with "other" living beings. The only problem is that we create these things and unconsciously lose ourselves in our own mental creation through identification with it; investing emotional energy to the belief that they are TRUE and representing actual reality. This causes suffering of course because of our pressure to protect a fantasy of being exposed as a fantasy, and being attached to a fantasy. But a fantasy in itself isn't negative or useless per se. If we could learn to stop this deconstructive habit and see conceptualizing for what it is, we can enjoy and properly work with it "again"

[Natasha]

In order to unlearn conditioning/programming one needs to learn tools to effectively fight illusion with illusion.

Besides, not everyone takes psychedelics... nothing wrong with it - as long as you keep expanding your awareness, it's a progress.

[cetus]

@Shrek_Of_Justice Now that your LSD trip is over, welcome back to the forum for some serious hallucination.

[ajasatya]

53 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Shrek_Of_Justice Now that your LSD trip is over, welcome back to the forum for some serious hallucination.

it had been quite a while since i laughed so hard on the internet.

[cetus]

12 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

it had been quite a while since i laughed so hard on the internet.

All joking aside though, it's not only the forum by any means. I see myself working within this conceptual framework along with society at large. It's like a well oiled machine than seems_ _ _ scheduled? or something?  Maybe that's it? Conceptual schedules within conceptual borders.  Whatever it is, it's a real framework for sure. When your in it you don't realize it's even happening, unless the perspective is changed by some means.

[ajasatya]

i am pro practical conceptualization. mental masturbation drains vital energy though.

[Hsinav]

6 hours ago, Shrek_Of_Justice said:

This was literally my biggest insight during a long beach walk on LSD. 

Then the trip was a waste of time and the insights not deep at all.

[cetus]

35 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

i am pro practical conceptualization. mental masturbation drains vital energy though.

As far as mental masturbation goes, it could be a form of resistance to truth.  Other times I think it's done to keep the ego stroked. And as for others, it may be a form of escapism. Ego substituting one habitual obsession for another.

[Joseph Maynor]

You need to fight bad illusion with good illusion so concepts are necessary for enlightenment theory and practice.  Don't fool yourself.

The key is that you have to know when to get out of the theory and set yourself free so you can transcend YOUR ego, which is where the rubber meets the road with enlightenment, not further study.

Has anybody become enlightened without concepts?  I don't think so.  Having a lot of theory will expedite your enlightenment, assuming the theory is good theory.  What would otherwise take 50 years may take 5 weeks.

So, theory is important.  What is important is to not cling to it tightly.  You gotta learn how to hold theory and beliefs loosely.  That's the ENTIRE problem.  It's not theory, it's how we hold the theory that is wrong.  We wanna cling too hard to theory.  Like a baby clawing for its comforting blanket.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Loreena]

I think certain concepts are necessary to bring a structure to life. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Loreena People who are too against concepts, theories, beliefs, and Philosophy are being dogmatic in their own right.  They run the risk of being Stage Blue beings.  The true skeptic holds all beliefs loosely and focuses on Eudaimonia.  Yes, even non-dual beliefs.  Some people don't grasp this yet.  Enlightenment is not the main-course, it's an element in a larger system -- the system of your developing awareness and improved actions.  So, even non-duality comes full circle back to duality and ego. We transcend the ego mentally but not bodily.  And that's as it should be.  That's reality.  Enlightenment is the perspective that makes self-actualization possible.  It's the secret-password for true happiness.  But the result, the main-course as it were -- is YOUR improved little egoic life, is it not?  That's what we're really doing with all this stuff if we take the rose-colored glasses off and take a sober look at things.  I think people really miss the big picture with all this personal development stuff. They get stuck on various ledges up the mountain-side and set up camp and never get to the very tip-top -- which is where you can get a 365 degree view of everything.  Enlightenment is an element of personal development, not the other way around!  This is one of the most recent epiphanies I've had.  So non-duality really does include duality.  Thus, conceptual thinking is necessary and good.  It just has to be INTERPRETED the right way by a human monkey-mind and held loosely.  Guns don't kill people.  And neither do concepts.  Neither does Philosophy.  It's US that is the problem, not concepts, not Philosophy.  The problem is in the rigidity that we want to hold concepts, theories, and beliefs.  And that's a different issue!  A lot of people miss this critical distinction. There is a larger system at work folks -- that system is your improved actual life, not some fantasy enlightened "thought-story" life you might dream about.  Even Eckhart Tolle puts his pants on one leg at a time every morning.  

Edited July 31, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:54 PM, cetus56 said:

All joking aside though, it's not only the forum by any means. I see myself working within this conceptual framework along with society at large. It's like a well oiled machine than seems_ _ _ scheduled? or something?  Maybe that's it? Conceptual schedules within conceptual borders.  Whatever it is, it's a real framework for sure. When your in it you don't realize it's even happening, unless the perspective is changed by some means.

Your life as you know it is literally an idea. Like, literally. Pretty intriguing, huh.

On 7/30/2017 at 3:37 PM, Echoes said:

@Shrek_Of_Justice

Leo will interpret these threads as a sign of the universe to go and live in a cave!  

Conceptualizing is a brilliant thing. Think of what a great instrument it is when used properly: You have the ability to create whole worlds, worldviews, philosophies, perspectives, metaphors, jokes, guidances out of a spectrum of symbols and signifiers; shared in their understandings with "other" living beings. The only problem is that we create these things and unconsciously lose ourselves in our own mental creation through identification with it; investing emotional energy to the belief that they are TRUE and representing actual reality. This causes suffering of course because of our pressure to protect a fantasy of being exposed as a fantasy, and being attached to a fantasy. But a fantasy in itself isn't negative or useless per se. If we could learn to stop this deconstructive habit and see conceptualizing for what it is, we can enjoy and properly work with it "again"

No it's definitely not a wrong thing, I just find it very funny this place is guiding us away from fantasy by using even more fantasy ayyy d:-)

On 7/31/2017 at 1:04 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

You need to fight bad illusion with good illusion so concepts are necessary for enlightenment theory and practice.  Don't fool yourself.

Has anybody become enlightened without concepts?  I don't think so.  Having a lot of theory will expedite your enlightenment, assuming the theory is good theory.  What would otherwise take 50 years may take 5 weeks.

So, theory is important.  What is important is to not cling to it tightly.  You gotta learn how to hold theory and beliefs loosely.  That's the ENTIRE problem.  It's not theory, it's how we hold the theory that is wrong.  We wanna cling too hard to theory.  Like a baby clawing for its comforting blanket.

As far as I know a lot of people have become enlightened without concepts, nevertheless the 'enlightened' fantasy is indeed quite handy for going there! But it also makes it so easy to get stuck in mental bullshit haha. 

On 7/30/2017 at 8:03 PM, Hsinav said:

Then the trip was a waste of time and the insights not deep at all.

I agree that the trip was a waste of time. I disagree that my insights weren't deep at all.

On 7/30/2017 at 6:22 PM, cetus56 said:

@Shrek_Of_Justice Now that your LSD trip is over, welcome back to the forum for some serious hallucination.

Man I thought I had it all but this place overrides my expectations once again

[cetus]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 10:56 AM, Shrek_Of_Justice said:

Your life as you know it is literally an idea. Like, literally. Pretty intriguing, huh.

@Shrek_Of_Justice You've got that right! It's like living in a bubble of thought. I remember the my first 'escape' from the bubble of thought and concept. I sat there for hours silently observing people running around, going from one place to another. Doing their scheduled chores right on schedule. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. I gotta be here now. I gotta be there after. On and on and on. And they're all running over each other just to keep their schedule on schedule. It looked like absolute insanity from where I was standing. It was so alien because I couldn't relate to anything that was happening at that moment. Like I was in a totally  different country with a totally different culture, and I totally didn't fit in. haha That's why I say you don't see it happening until you actually step out of it and view it from the outside. I remember thinking 'Holy shit, that's me too!. I've been literally sleep walking through life.

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

@cetus56 Yes indeed sir, I find it funny you mention that since a couple of weeks ago I solo travelled to Sweden and felt exactly the same. I just sat for hours watching humans do human stuff, not feeling a single relation to these 'creatures' whatsoever hahaha. It was like I saw this magnificent ultra HD reality TV serie about humanity as an identityless observer. 

The norm for living life is to be a walking concept ??