Profound Sadness After Non Dual Experience : Anyone To Talk To?

[WaterfallMachine]

Sigh. Not a good day today. Anyone here I can PM? Or even just talk on this thread?

Sorry, but I'm getting more depressed as the minutes pass. Being down is turning into sadness. Sadness is turning to depression. And from where it's heading, it seems like it's going to turn to despair. I'm even growing some thoughts of suicide but don't worry, I'm not taking that seriously. And I won't in the future. Probably. I would go talk to my usual listeners. But no one I know would really get the context of this situation.

I explained it in my journal that I've recently made.

Quote

It's an unsettling bliss.

You ever watch those movies where for example, a family member of a character dies and they'd come into a room expecting they'd still be there, they're gone? And because of this, they feel distressed. Upset. Longing for the past. But they know they can never go back.

It's like that. But for my sense of self. 

I've spent my entire life with myself. I've criticized my identity. I've prided on my identity. I've shouted angry words at myself. I've gently told myself to hang in there. I was with myself in my highest and at my lowest. I've read books together with myself. I was with myself when I was with my friends and family.

But it's gone.

I always had been daydreaming a whole world since I was a kid. Where I'm the hero. Where I can be admired. Cherished. Become a success. Whether it's in the world of one of those samurai anime tv shows I used to watch or a world of my own creation. It's been an inner legend as if different variations of the same tale being spread throughout history. The history of my life. The idea of "The success story." 

Those times where I cheered on movies about a character who's caught by the enemy and put in great pain but manages to push through. Those stories of people stuck in poverty and managing to contribute millions to humanity in a business. Those stories of people who were absolute dicks but managed to become a humble Saint. And so on.

Its like my sense of self was organized and shaped into an ice cube. But it began to melt, and I try to cusp the water into my hands but I can't anymore. Because my real self is formless. And I'm trying to hold on whatever is left of the ice.

I don't think most people would understand if I told them. So all I have is a site like this.

I see flickers of pride and gratitude for who "I" am but then I realize this person doesn't exist. And it's not the same. 

There's bliss now.

And yet there's also an unsettling emptiness. A sadness.

In who?

I don't know anymore. I don't know.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[Voyager]

I had the same thing a few weeks ago after an enlightenment experience. I was really fucked up from it for a week at least. After 2 weeks I was able to integrate my experience / knowledge and felt grounded and happy again. Possibly self re-establishing itself which may not be a good thing but on the plus side, the world is a lot more beautiful now. I'd give you the same advice I was given and Just go and enjoy the beauty of existence for a few weeks whilst integrating. All will be sweet bud. 

[eputkonen]

What feels sadness?

It is the ego...messing with you again.  It is the ego that is sad...but you say that person does not exist...so what is the problem?  You are lying to yourself...if there really was the realization that there is no "me"...there would be no sadness.

"And I'm trying to hold on whatever is left of the ice."  This is exactly my point...the "me" is trying to hold onto whatever "me" is left.  This is something only a "me" could say.  You want to believe "that person does not exist"...but it still very much exists and is kicking and screaming (hence the sadness). 

You are allowing yourself an escape by saying "my real self is formless"...this still leaves you with an identity...something to identify with.  The thing is...there is nothing to identify with.  There is no "me".

So delve into this "me" that you are still believing and identify with.  Is it real or just a thought?  Delve into the sadness...what is its source?  There is no escape...the only way out is through (so to speak).  There has to be a clear seeing (clarify) of what is.  You have no choice but to be aware when conscious, so just look at what is going on...the "me"...etc.  Look deeply.

[Natasha]

@WaterfallMachine Mister Ego is sad and understandiably so - its losing its grip and using mind attacks as a survival mechanism. This will help put things in better perspective. Hugs

 

 

[WaterfallMachine]

@Voyager @eputkonen @Natasha

Hey, thanks guys.

Update : I'm in a calmer mood oddly. Well, calm's not that the best way to put it. Not that I don't feel pain. But I don't see it as "bad" or "good". It seems almost as neutral a feeling as touching a blank wall. 

Other weird stuff happened today too. I felt an odd feeling in my stomach and was confused. But I just ignored it. Later on I got dizzy, and I realized this was hunger. And what made me not realize it was how the feeling of it as something negative wasn't there. And if my past self would have experienced it, the hunger would be pretty intense and stressful. But I just went my day focusing intently on what I had to do. 

My sense of time has been growing faster and faster. A day first seemed like two days. Then it grew into a week. A month. Years. Later even longer than I lived. Today, it felt like time did not even move at all. When I think of memories from my childhood, it feels like it all happened a second ago. 

I heard of something called The Dark Night — basically how the mind can sink into extreme negative emotions after a seeing. I bought a book recently that had this and I read that it could last for years or it could be short. As well as the advice to start doing more basic insight practice. I awoke with the possibility that I could be depressed for a long long long time.

And how did I react?

Eh. Okay. I'll deal with that. Not like I need enlightenment that soon. 

And soon my sadness disappeared. Replaced by a relaxed satisfaction. 

And I went upon my day.

But I don't know if it will last. 

I don't know. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[Dodo]

22 hours ago, WaterfallMachine said:

Sigh. Not a good day today. Anyone here I can PM? Or even just talk on this thread?

Sorry, but I'm getting more depressed as the minutes pass. Being down is turning into sadness. Sadness is turning to depression. And from where it's heading, it seems like it's going to turn to despair. I'm even growing some thoughts of suicide but don't worry, I'm not taking that seriously. And I won't in the future. Probably. I would go talk to my usual listeners. But no one I know would really get the context of this situation.

I explained it in my journal that I've recently made.

 

Hi Waterfall. You seem far too deep in spirituality for depression to have a soil to grow in. Don't worry. Watch it play its course, in the meantime go deeper into who you are. There's infinite depth to nothingness. It is everything. You are everything.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Dodo

[WaterfallMachine]

I read Daniel Ingram's book and it looks like I was in a Dark Night episode. According to it, that was the Misery stage. I've already experienced the first stage — fear. And man, I saw the craziest visions and suffered complete terror at it. Long story. Next is disgust, desire for deliverance, and reobservation. 

Which is a lot more potentially terrifying if you read those descriptions. I mean I'm not scared now, but later on I might. And these words aren't enough to describe the potential of how insanely crappy these states could be.

Shit.

Haha, guys, if you have any advice or resources, keep it coming.

[cetus]

4 hours ago, WaterfallMachine said:

I read Daniel Ingram's book and it looks like I was in a Dark Night episode. According to it, that was the Misery stage. I've already experienced the first stage — fear. And man, I saw the craziest visions and suffered complete terror at it. Long story. Next is disgust, desire for deliverance, and reobservation. 

Which is a lot more potentially terrifying if you read those descriptions. I mean I'm not scared now, but later on I might. And these words aren't enough to describe the potential of how insanely crappy these states could be.

Shit.

Haha, guys, if you have any advice or resources, keep it coming.

@WaterfallMachine I have some advise.  Don't play into the hands of the ego. Let the truth slowly integrate. It takes time to settle in. Hopefully your still young and discovered this at an early age. If you are, that is very good. If your not too young, that is good too. Better late than never as the old saying goes.

Here's a thought for ya. You could go through your whole life watching the sun cross the sky from sunrise till sunset and mistakenly think it is the sun that moves across the sky. But that is a misconception of reality.  What you discovered about yourself is a lot like realizing this for the first time. Reality has not changed one bit. You've only awoken to the truth as it has always been and dropped the misconception.

[MiracleMan]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:36 AM, WaterfallMachine said:

Sigh. Not a good day today. Anyone here I can PM? Or even just talk on this thread?

Sorry, but I'm getting more depressed as the minutes pass. Being down is turning into sadness. Sadness is turning to depression. And from where it's heading, it seems like it's going to turn to despair. I'm even growing some thoughts of suicide but don't worry, I'm not taking that seriously. And I won't in the future. Probably. I would go talk to my usual listeners. But no one I know would really get the context of this situation.

I explained it in my journal that I've recently made.

 

Explore how you equate or closely relate emptiness to sadness.  I do this everyday but now I try to observe rather than engage with it.  You are onto something there though, pierce it a bit further.  Emptiness isn't sadness, sadness is a thought right?  Maybe a feeling is there too but that is another separate thing. When everything else falls away and you feel sadness in the emptiness of your being, maybe you associate the feeling of sadness with emptiness because at some point in your life that void was present.  I saw the void when I was a child but I had no spiritual guidance, none of these experiences that a lot of enlightened people claim to have had.  It was very similar but without any answer, it was just fear there.  So I associated fear with the void, and pain and sorrow and a lot negative things that I think fucked me up.  But now I'm realizing that was a mistake, or rather just what brains do sometimes, so I have to separate my feelings from the thoughts.  The fear was just a thought, and the feeling just a sensation, and the void was just what is.  Not sure I can tell you what is happening there or help you.  I honestly wouldn't pay too much energy on this, continue your practice, you may discover the answer without having to pry to hard into the past.

[TJ Reeves]

@WaterfallMachine

To start, @eputkonen and @Natasha's responses are pretty spot on. I'm just adding further elaboration. 

Your ego is the localization of consciousness in space and time, with all of its limited understanding, memories, and accounts for existence. It is the story you that you think of as your life. And it is what you think of as you. For now lets call it the thinking mind. In truth, you cannot 100% control the thinking mind or Ego. 

The Universe needs your ego to have the ups and downs that make for an exciting game of Life.

Examine yourself the next time you watch a movie. What's going on there? Do you feel emotions for the character? Do you also sit there just watching silently too? That's basically what's going on with your life. 

The way you love it when John McClane gets shot in Die Hard, even though you feel sad for him as a character; the way you love it when Luke Skywalker has to face his father, even though you feel angry for his personal injustice; the way you love it when The Bride finally Kills Bill, even though you also feel her exhaustion - That is the way the real you that is pure awareness loves every aspect of your life - both the highs and the lows, even if, for your ego, it sucks to go through that stuff at the time.

But lets go even further – how excited would you be if instead of just watching the movie, you could really be a part of it? Imagine if you could actually be John McClane, knowing that you’ll be fine either way?

The real you just wants to experience it all. It got sick of having a nonspecific view of absolute infinity and wanted to spend some time living through a specific door of perception. It loves you no matter what for allowing it to look through a specific door of perception inside of itself. This is what is meant by total love. It’s almost childish giddiness that exists for simply getting to exist! 

So this whole thing about getting depressed - that's your ego twisting upon itself. It is most certainly not the observing, true, no-self of pure awareness. Indeed, look deeper, and you will see that the real you is sitting there taking it all in joyfully. 

Here are some exercises you can do that will help you separate your two minds and take more control of your behavior despite your thoughts and emotions.

1. Whenever you feel a strong emotion or thought, disidentify with it and then take possession of it.

“My boss is not an idiot. But I am having the thought that my boss is an idiot.”

“I don’t hate my ex-girlfriend. I am feeling hatred toward my ex-girlfriend.” 

“I am not lonely and depressed. I am feeling loneliness and depression.”

Language is very powerful. Notice when you disidentify from these emotions and thoughts in this way it 1) implies that they’re temporary states, and not permanent conditions and 2) forces you to take responsibility for them. They’re nobody’s fault, they just are.

2. Thank your Thinking Mind for negative thoughts and emotions. This is a technique from ACT and it is effective. It may sound absolutely nuts, but it’s effective because it FORCES you to accept your negative emotions instead of fight them.

“Thank you, Thinking Mind, for feeling nervous before my date tonight. It will keep me on my toes!”

“Thank you, Thinking Mind, for being angry at my boss. I really appreciate how much you care.”

This is going to feel really bizarre – expressing gratitude towards negative emotions. But I think you’ll find that it diminishes the power of the thoughts and emotions over time and actually impels you to take action despite them.

3. Finally, if you find yourself in the heat of the moment, or if there’s something that’s really nagging at you, make the thought look and sound absolutely ridiculous in your mind. Take your time and play with it. Try to make yourself laugh.

Take something that’s bothered you recently and hold it in your mind. Maybe it’s your girlfriend nagging you. Maybe it’s being terrified of talking to that cute girl in class next to you. Maybe it’s quitting your job.

Distill it into a single sentence, such as, “I feel afraid of quitting my job.” Or “I feel irritated with my girlfriend.”

Now close your eyes and imagine Bugs Bunny saying it, while chewing a carrot. Then Mickey Mouse saying it, while dancing and doing cartwheels. Pretend the Chipmunks are singing it to you in the form of a Christmas carol.

Now, turn it into an image, maybe your angry girlfriend, or your broke ass sitting on the curb. Put that image on a television screen. Make the colors funny, give yourself a polka dotted suit. Make your girlfriend’s hair into a bunch of candy canes.

After you’ve done this for a minute or two, stop. How do you feel?

Chances are you feel much better about it and the negative emotion isn’t nearly as potent as it was before. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by TJ Reeves

[Joseph Maynor]

It happens to everybody.  I had one too that lasted a few days to a week after my first enlightenment re-shuffling.  Your sense of who you are is changing, so it is kind of like a death.  That's why it is so painful.  You are grieving a part of you that is dying.  But that part of you was never real, it was only beliefs.  So, you will go through an existential crisis, and a lot of weird psychological stuff when this first happens to you.   I think I went through the 7 stages of grief.  And then I was so angry that I lived a lie for so long.  And I was also relieved.  And sad, grieving, etc.  Then I went through a Zen Devil phase for a couple of weeks afterward, so watch out for that!  

Edited July 31, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Natasha]

15 hours ago, WaterfallMachine said:

I heard of something called The Dark Night

 

 

 

[WaterfallMachine]

@MiracleMan @TJ Reeves @Joseph Maynor @Natasha

 

I really appreciate the additional input. . Nice to know I have a community I can count on. In the first two hours this post was made, I was barely seeing replies and thanks to how crappy I felt, I thought no one cared. But turns out people do answer. 

It seems a lot more manageable now, not just because of the advice but I'm getting a message about something I know about well. I thought I had to know some specialized recipe for this specific situation, but it's not like that. 

Treat it like anyone else with depression or anxiety problems — while being aware of the specifics of this stage in the pursuit of enlightenment. The second I need research with (I guess I'll start with the video Natasha posted later on) and the first one is pretty good, though there's still room for improvement. 

I know what depression is like. I've been through even worse situations than what happened when I started this thread — and for much longer periods as well. I've learned a variety of tools from the few years I used to have depression and anxiety and I cured my mental health issues for a reason. 

That would explain why it lasted for a few hours and was gone the next day. A part of me is still . . . strangely used to these kinds of things. To get out of that state, I had to radically change several misconceptions about myself, others and life and well, this is a similar situation. Particularly similar to that other existential depressions I had at two different ages that also had to do with the nature of existence. It's a much bigger thing to take — sure, but loads better compared to someone who was used to a much more comfortable life before this.

It's definitely not a perfect all good and quick solution, but better than before.

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by WaterfallMachine