Is There A "line" When It Comes To Honesty?

[J]

Honesty usually is viewed as a good habit for people to have, but ti can have some negative consequences. My question is when you should be honest. My honesty has angered people in the past and even destroyed friend groups.   I see dishonesty no matter what the situation as a selfish action in which will always hurt longer than the truth. But after such a long time of being so damn honest I have reached a realization how cold my actions may have been. To make a hypothetical example,  assume someone asked me if they are obese yet they were certainly obese. Should I lie to make the person feel better or be honest no matter how much the person doesn't want to hear it.

I've asked a few people this question of honesty vs comforting lies and received a mixed bag of results.  I ask this so that I can (possibly) draw a line in the sand were to be honest.

(Note: I know honesty is heavily determined by the situation thus there may be no "line in the sand" when it comes to honesty.)

Note 2 (to clear some things up): This is on the habits sub-forum because honesty is my habit

Anyways, thanks for reading.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by J
Clarification

[Sarah Marie]

I watched Leo's video on "How You Lie" and I was like oh my gosh, I totally manipulate people. So I started just being honest and I lost about 3 friends, LOL. But I will tell you I would rather have them gone then listening to how their spouse cheated on them but they don't want to leave (blah blah blah). I've noticed totally honestly makes me feel like I am being my authentic self. If you choose this just be prepared for some consequences. Don't get me wrong I'm not an ass hole, I am just honest. 

Example:

My husband- "Did you just check that guy out?"

Me-"Yep, I sure did." -honesty

My husband- "Did you just check that guy out."

me- "Yep, I did. Why can't your muscles be that big?" - ass hole comment/crossing a line that doesn't need to be crossed.

 

 

[J]

Ah okay. I can relate to how you said

Just now, Sarah_Flagg said:

 I would rather have them gone then listening to how their spouse cheated on them but they don't want to leave

 

 

I can relate in a sense to this as my friend constantly asked me about her own identity which was always putting me in the spot light. At the same time though she had some emotional issues.

To take a different turn on this subject, we had a speaker in our state's high school on the topic of diversity. Apparently he was a big figure in the civil rights movement and even knew Mr. King. I got the chance to talk with him in a small group today and I asked the same hypothetical question mentioned above. The man told me something on the lines of, " if you were asked by a child if his drawing is nice then you would say it's  nice."  For a moment I thought about his response and internally asked, "well is that statement  a ad hominem?' In some sense maybe, but still a interesting stance that I should've mentioned.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by J
Minor gramatical errors

[Walter B]

1 hour ago, J said:

Honesty usually is viewed as a good habit for people to have, but ti can have some negative consequences. My question is when you should be honest. My honesty has angered people in the past and even destroyed friend groups.   I see dishonesty no matter what the situation as a selfish action in which will always hurt longer than the truth. But after such a long time of being so damn honest I have reached a realization how cold my actions may have been. To make a hypothetical example,  assume someone asked me if they are obese yet they were certainly obese. Should I lie to make the person feel better or be honest no matter how much the person doesn't want to hear it.

I've asked a few people this question of honesty vs comforting lies and received a mixed bag of results.  I ask this so that I can (possibly) draw a line in the sand were to be honest.

(Note: I know honesty is heavily determined by the situation thus there may be no "line in the sand" when it comes to honesty.)

Note 2 (to clear some things up): This is on the habits sub-forum because honesty is my habit

Anyways, thanks for reading.

 

I'm very honest and share your experiences. 

What do you think of folks that just say nothing rather than lie or be honest?

Edited February 19, 2016 by Pyrrhocorax graculus

[J]

Sometimes in hard situations I try my best to be quiet while  others people become suspicious of my silence and draw to conclusions. Usually there isn't really any "safe" option besides changing the topic in a subtle way.

[Walter B]

Do you have some people you are more open with? How do you segregate your actions?

[J]

I treat everyone I know with the same amount of honesty. (Unless they are known to use my or others information presented against people)

Also can you be more clear on how to "segregate actions"

I assume that you mean that how do you "change the topic."  I'd say if you can manipulate people in ways that don't notice then you can avoid some of these situations. Manipulation is a skill you may need to develop though if you want to try thus method. In other words practice new ways of speech to your peers when you are in a social situation.

 

[ayokolomo]

Is it the truth or is it your opinion on what the truth is?

[Walter B]

2 minutes ago, J said:

I treat everyone I know with the same amount of honesty. (Unless they are known to use my or others information presented against people)

Also can you be more clear on how to "segregate actions"

I assume that you mean that how do you "change the topic."  I'd say if you can manipulate people in ways that don't notice then you can avoid some of these situations. Manipulation is a skill you may need to develop though if you want to try thus method. In other words practice new ways of speech to your peers when you are in a social situation.

 

Right. Thanks. Been working on this for a while now.

But I was referring to some one of an intimate relation. I burned lots of nice people in my past till I learned to bond with "one" or a closed group even and be open with them above everyone else. 

[Walter B]

3 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

Is it the truth or is it your opinion on what the truth is?

Does the truth matter? If it does then wouldn't a person reciprocate if it mattered to them to?

[J]

It is usually the truth, not a opinion. The issue is that the person is hurt by the truth. The situation I used in my 1st statement is usually the kind of issue I run into in which are not opinionated but factual. On the other hand if someone wants a opinions such as: Do I look nice ? I always say yes to these questions as they aren't factual.   I rarely ever lie unless in danger.

Just now, ayokolomo said:

Is it the truth or is it your opinion on what the truth is?

 

[ayokolomo]

5 minutes ago, Pyrrhocorax graculus said:

Does the truth matter? If it does then wouldn't a person reciprocate if it mattered to them to?

My point is more about the subjectivity of certain truths than the relevance that truth has on their lives 

[J]

In other words I don't usually tell "truths" based upon opinions.

Edited February 19, 2016 by J
Error in wording

[Walter B]

13 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

My point is more about the subjectivity of certain truths than the relevance that truth has on their lives 

How do you generally approach assessing subjectivity? But I think I see your point. Do you ever catch yourself assuming that you can appropriately judge the relevance that a truth has on someone else's life?

Edited February 19, 2016 by Pyrrhocorax graculus

[ayokolomo]

5 minutes ago, J said:

It is usually the truth, not a opinion. The issue is that the person is hurt by the truth. The situation I used in my 1st statement is usually the kind of issue I run into in which are not opinionated but factual. On the other hand if someone wants a opinions such as: Do I look nice ? I always say yes to these questions as they aren't factual.   I rarely ever lie unless in danger.

 

Even truthful statements or answers are reliant on subjective judgements. It may not be being honesr or dishonest more than is about changing your own subjective judgements.  

Sonetime I find that the brutaly honest approach works: "you fat fuck get that doughnut out of your mouth!"

But more often than not just being mindful about my words allows me to see my own judgental side.

[J]

Just now, ayokolomo said:

Even truthful statements or answers are reliant on subjective judgements. It may not be being honesr or dishonest more than is about changing your own subjective judgements.  

Sonetime I find that the brutaly honest approach works: "you fat fuck get that doughnut out of your mouth!"

But more often than not just being mindful about my words allows me to see my own judgental side.

Certainly how people word things can come off as judgement. In this case though usually I'm  empathetic/conscious of my words due to my personality thus leading to a short and sweet response.

So usually I answer with Yes or no.

And if I can't answer with yes or no then the context of my reply still maintains as harmless to the listener as possible.

[ayokolomo]

3 minutes ago, Pyrrhocorax graculus said:

How do you generally approach assessing subjectivity? But I think I see your point. Do you ever catch yourself assuming that you can appropriately judge the relevance that a truth has on someone else's life.

I am human, I mess up, I have regrets about making this girl cry or that gut getting pissed off.  But if I am mindful of my emotions, I can feel a judgental thought coming and then I stop myself.

Also remember the question may be a lie or just not really the full truth.  "am I fat?" Said by a girl is really saying "am I attractive enough to go out, because I dont have enough confidence"  

[J]

Good point. It seems as some questions have a deeper purpose then intended. From this I can conclude that it truly depends on the underlying purpose in which the question was asked.

Thanks

[ayokolomo]

4 minutes ago, J said:

Certainly how people word things can come off as judgement. In this case though usually I'm  empathetic/conscious of my words due to my personality thus leading to a short and sweet response.

So usually I answer with Yes or no.

And if I can't answer with yes or no then the context of my reply still maintains as harmless to the listener as possible.

Yes and no, are my standard responses.  The hidden meaning of the question (if there is one) is the one I try to answer.

But sometimes "is it halloween because you are wearing a whores costume" can work.

[J]

Thanks

What a quite a clever way to conclude this subject. 

 

(I may need to apologize to some people now but hey at least I now have a valid point to do so.)