Differentiating Perceptions And Content - Enlightenment

[Emerald]

On closer inspection, our experiences consist entirely of our perceptions of sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, and thought (and awareness itself, even though it is difficult to perceive). I'm tempted to put emotion in there too, but I'm pretty sure that is just a combination of touch and thought, giving the illusion of a single perception when it is really two perceptions experienced in combination. 

So, anything that we experience, happens within these faculties... unless I'm mistaken. In this way, reality is really simple despite the fact that the content within these fields of awareness seems very complex. These are also separate fields of awareness that have no empirical relationship to one another, other than the fact that they are happening in the same field of awareness.

Where do I go from here? What else could I notice that I'm not yet aware of? Any contemplation questions, comments, or thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Emerald Wilkins

[jjer94]

What/where are you among these sense perceptions?

What is the backdrop of all of these sense perceptions? What permeates them?

Is there also an external world full of space and matter, or are there only sense perceptions?

What are "others"?

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, jjer94 said:

What/where are you among these sense perceptions?

What is the backdrop of all of these sense perceptions? What permeates them?

Is there also an external world full of space and matter, or are there only sense perceptions?

What are "others"?

I'll use these for later contemplation but I'll answer them now too, to see what it yields.

- I am in the content of my thoughts when I ask myself this. I imagine an idealized picture of me sitting where I am. I feel a tensing in my shoulders and chest in relation to my mind's image of myself and I feel an identification with that image. I feel extra tense when I imagine someone calling my name. A  dumbfounded image of myself comes up. It feels as though my sight is myself too. Like there is a soul looking out through binoculars. When I shift my awareness to this space, there is no self in that space.

- All of my sense perceptions are moving and maybe a bit static-like. The field of awareness itself has little 'dots' (for want of a better word) swimming around. This is true with sight, sound, and touch anyway. 

- I'm not sure if the external is real. All I know for sure are my perceptions in the present moment, because my experience of the "external world" is couched entirely in my inner experience. So, if there is anything external to me (which may or may not be) I am not perceiving it now, and thus it resides in the realm of thought-content and beliefs.

-I'm not sure what you mean by others.

[jjer94]

Quote

-I'm not sure what you mean by others.

Others, as in, other people, other bodies. What are they really?

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- All of my sense perceptions are moving and maybe a bit static-like. The field of awareness itself has little 'dots' (for want of a better word) swimming around. This is true with sight, sound, and touch anyway. 

Listen to any sounds. Where are they coming from? Where are they going?

In order to really get what I'm saying, you may need to re-examine your ideas of an external world. Currently, you believe that your consciousness is a subset of the universe, a little ant among vast space and matter. What if it were the other way around? What if the universe was a subset of your consciousness? Contemplate that. Use this as a resource.

Make that small little adjustment, and seeing through ego to find the "I AM" will be automatic.

[Emerald]

Just now, jjer94 said:

Others, as in, other people, other bodies. What are they really?

Listen to any sounds. Where are they coming from? Where are they going?

In order to really get what I'm saying, you may need to re-examine your ideas of an external world. Currently, you believe that your consciousness is a subset of the universe, a little ant among vast space and matter. What if it were the other way around? What if the universe was a subset of your consciousness? Contemplate that. Use this as a resource.

Make that small little adjustment, and seeing through ego to find the "I AM" will be automatic.

- I experience other people visually as shapes imbued with colors on a flat screen of more colors with no delineation from other things in my field of awareness. Sound-wise they are just sounds that I identify as voices, footsteps, clothing rustling, etc. Tactually, they are just sensations that my thoughts associate label with their image. My thoughts imbue these things with meaning relating to my perceptions of who they are. 

- Sounds aren't coming from or going anywhere. They just are. They are just sounds. Words like vibration and energy want to pop up but that is a label. There is a lot of change in the sounds. No tone keeps a solid sameness. It's moving. Sounds aren't separate from one another, even if I can identify that they are coming from different sources within my field of awareness. The sound of typing, airplanes, television fuzz are all mixed together. There is no distance between them or delineation between them. My mind gives me a black image with little vibrations-things in it because it's trying to conceptualize.

I have been considering that idea recently that I am the backdrop for all the content of my perceptions. The assumptions that come along with solipsism have been getting in the way though. It ignites my mind so that it comes up with many concepts and ideas that I get hemmed into. How do I move past conceptual understanding of this for a real experience? Any other questions to ask?

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald Wilkins That's on the right track.

But also wonder, Are they really separate fields of awareness? Who says that sight is fundamentally different or separate from sound? You do? And you trust yourself why?

Notice that the distinction between sight and sound is conceptual. One could eliminate this distinction. Only the mind says they are separate.

Not only that, but you could even eliminate the concept of "sight" and the concept of "sound" and the concept of "sensation". Leaving you with....

You tell me.

What happens when all concepts, labels, and distinctions are jettisoned?

[Emerald]

@jjer94

Great article. I'll bookmark it for later to read the other parts.  

@Leo Gura

I didn't think of either of these things. They 'seem' separate as though they happen in different "dimensions" almost. But maybe not. I will contemplate on this. I will also attempt to experience them separate from my notions of sense perception. Good advice. Those sneaky little mental constructs are going down.  

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald Wilkins Ask yourself: Who is telling me that they are separate?

The monkey mind?

And the monkey mind can be trusted because...?

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald Wilkins Ask yourself: Who is telling me that they are separate?

The monkey mind?

And the monkey mind can be trusted because...?

Thoughts come up from nowhere. I don't have to believe them because they aren't 'me' nor do I control them. They are just a perception.

[Khin]

@Emerald Wilkins You are really at the door now. But you have to curious more. Ask questions but don't answer them yourself. When I start meditating I first said to myself "There is no you or I, only the body made of four elements and senses." And I decide to look at whatever comes up as it is and not putting the word 'I'. Remember when Leo said, when we see the lamp, just notice it as 'seeing' don't label it. I'm really excided for you.

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Khin said:

@Emerald Wilkins You are really at the door now. But you have to curious more. Ask questions but don't answer them yourself. When I start meditating I first said to myself "There is no you or I, only the body made of four elements and senses." And I decide to look at whatever comes up as it is and not putting the word 'I'. Remember when Leo said, when we see the lamp, just notice it as 'seeing' don't label it. I'm really excided for you.

Thank you. I'm hoping that I'm at least pointed in the right direction of "the door" at least.

When I was 15, I learned to draw realistically in somewhat short order because I was able to perceive my sight separate from my concept of what I was seeing. Up until that point, I might as well have been blind because I didn't ever see the world for what it was. I saw my concept of the world.  I'm hoping that by applying the same process to my other senses and self-concept to see if it is enough to wake me up. Keep your fingers crossed for me.  

[Naviy]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not only that, but you could even eliminate the concept of "sight" and the concept of "sound" and the concept of "sensation". Leaving you with....

You tell me.

I tried this, and at first I wanted to say, that what remains in such case - are only experience and awareness. There is experience and there is some emptiness, which is lack of experience.

But then I noticed, that the lack of experience is an experience also. There is no awareness. There is no true emptiness. What happens - is constant experience after experience after experience. Also, the question "Who or what am I out of monkey mind?" is kind of wrong. The question "Who or what percieves?" is kind of wrong too. There is only experience. Nothingness or awareness - they are not "there".  I kind of feel that there is no sense in trying to find them. Find what? Another experience? Experience is the only thing you can find (searching, finding, not finding, realization, etc. - all are experiences which have same equal value).

You can make a conclusion that if you are not experience, then you are nothing. But this will be just another experience (in whatever form it manifests - intellectial conclusion or "divine realization"). You can think about it, or again, you can even exprience some "divine realization", but still this is not it. You cannot find nothingness (= True self, Truth, Awareness, etc.). You also cannot experience it. Find what? Eperience what? That, what is not "something"? Finding, realizing and experiencing can only occur to what is "something".

Can emptiness experience itself? I don't know. Now I think that I don't know anything about enlightenment or nothingness. I cannot imagine what it is. 

I am not skeptical. On the contrary, I feel some kind of progress. I want to continue doing all the practices, searching and reading.

Hm. Right now I feel lost and disappointed. I am not sure in anything. I am not sure in this message and in all that "I have understood" for the last couple of years.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Naviy

[Leo Gura]

@Naviy Hence why we tell you that enlightenment is not an experience.

There may be something beyond experience which you've yet to discover. Keep your mind open.

Never underestimate the mind's vast potential for self-deception. Any conclusion you reach could easily be wrong because there is ultimately no arbiter of truth but yourself.

[vizual]

Let's say you wake up and the only thing that you can perceive are your thoughts, all your sense have somehow disappeared. Your thoughts will probably freak out and wondering what's going on, you would probably still feel you are "you". There is still something perceiving your thoughts.

On the other hand, you have also experienced where you did not have any thoughts at all, your mind was entirely blank and only your sensual perceptions were present. In both cases you felt "you" were present. 

Your thoughts are totally different now than they were as when you were a child, from within the illusion you could say that "childlike-you" is a totally different person than you are now. Yet, something was exactly the same then as it is now, but this thing can not be found anywhere inside the illusion. This thing has been exactly the same in the experience you call life. Maybe you could meditate on that, what is it that has been constant every moment in my life? It is subtle of course, but it's there(or not, up to you to find out ;)). Every single one of your senses can be deceived, awareness can not be deceived.