Fuck Your Own Mind

[Shin]

Rape and torture and murder is as much love as you loving your kids or your partner.

You didn't misread what I just wrote.

If you really want to realize your enlightenment, you need to drop all point of view, concept and beliefs you have, and these aren't excluded.

What I mean by that is, that certain culture exist/existed or could exist (I don't know for sure, didn't study this) were rape could be totally legitimate.
If everyone in this culture paradigm firmly believed that rape is a good and natural thing, everyone will accept it, even encourage it.
It wouldn't even be rape at this point, because women would accept it, just like they accept it in the animal realm (what do you think it is ? It is what we human calls rape ...).

Same thing for torture, there is animals playing with their prey, even when they are still alive and deeply wounded.
Why do you think they have no remorse and even enjoy torture (because it is torture by our definition) ?
Well, there is no sense of self, they have no conditioned mind, they just do what feels fun for them.

Now you can understand why Zen Devilry is a real thing, because you could totally be 1000% enlightened and have 0 sense of morality.
But I just said morality is relative, so why should we care about it ?
Yes ultimately, nothing is real, nothing matters, and nothing is really damaged, so why bother, why should I not fuck and use everyone and everything how it pleases me ?

Well, because you have a mind that is already conditioned ...
It's not like you could erase all the data in your mind, and start again with 0 beliefs/perspectives, even if you could, that would be pointless and not really fun.
What is fun is to integrate all the paradoxes into this slice of reality, and make the best of it.

That doesn't mean you always do the "nice thing", but it means that you take into account the fact that almost every other humans are highly unconscious and suffer already from it, so why would you add more suffering to it if you can avoid it ?
Wouldn't it be egotistical to do what you want at the expense of others, which at this point, you realize is all you ?
Yes it would, or it would indicate that you're still very unconscious (paradoxically) despite being enlightened, which is possible, everything is.

The most popular enlightened being of all time were hardcore on compassion.

• Buddha spent the remaining of his life creating teachings that today are still very effective to release our sense of self (Zen).
• Jesus literally sacrifice himself (he wasn't dumb, he knew what would happen), to show us how much compassion one can have.
• Nowadays we have the Dalai Lama, which advocates total acceptance of all religions and culture, even science, and travel all around the world trying to make that happen.

But all those people (and the millions throughout history we don't know about) knows very well there is no problem at all, that it's all conceptual.
If someone was raping, then torturing, then killing a child in front of them, they wouldn't even blink ...
They would help if they could, but if they couldn't, they wouldn't care at all.
They would still have emotions corresponding to the event, but they would fully know these emotions stems from their conditioned mind, and are not that serious.

The best analogy my mind can come with, is a child that you're babysitting, crying over a toy he just broke.
You know very well the child is creating its own suffering, but what do you do (if you're not egoic as fuck), you try to cheer him up right ?

Why would you do that ?
Do you feel bad for him (let's assume you're "above" that already) ?
No you don't, at all, but you still do it, because you can, because deep deep down, even if you don't feel it, you love this stupid brat.

On one hand you don't care at all, but at the same time you do everything you can to help.

 

[Loreena]

If everyone in this culture paradigm firmly believed that mental illness is a good and natural thing, everyone will accept it, even encourage it.

It wouldn't even be mental illness at this point, because everyone would accept it, just like they accept it in the animal realm (what do you think it is ? It is what we humans call illness ...).

Same goes for murder(its called murder for food in the animal kingdom).

Same goes for everything else. 

There can be love. 

And then there can be blind love. 

         Blind love = ignorance 

It's also precisely called mindfuck. 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Loreena

[Steph1988]

@Shin I would take a few issue with this i think but i like that you put it so bluntly and its not that u are completely wrong on everything i think, but i just think this goes to far.

21 minutes ago, Shin said:

Rape and torture and murder is as much love as you loving your kids or your partner.

I guess you mean to say everything is relative but i can imagine that u prefer loving your partner over being raped and tortured so if you do prefer that i guess it means its not THAT relative.

23 minutes ago, Shin said:

What I mean by that is, that certain culture exist/existed or could exist (I don't know for sure, didn't study this) were rape could be totally legitimate.

Yes probably if u want to say how far we can stretch that look at North Korea but again same thing as the above.

53 minutes ago, Shin said:

Well, because you have a mind that is already conditioned ...

But not only by culture, the conditioning goes waaay back to prehistoric times u seem to dismiss neurobiology, the existence of archetypes, we are wired from millions of years of evolution and that is overlooked way to often, 

26 minutes ago, Shin said:

But I just said morality is relative

I'm not sure it is, i would say it is absolute and that is because it works, we need a concept of good and evil, we need to define both so we have something to work with and something to aim and strive for, and that this is good is self evident, when u do good it feels good, when u move towards positive goals it feels good u feel better, children u raise will do better u are more healthy its all been proven, same thing with evil, when performing an evil action it will ripple out in the world and lots of evil actions done by individuals will destroy a society,

You could simply say that the words better and evil actions and goals etc are also relative but what is the use in that.

Its is simply self evident u know u prefer to have a good family,passions,being cared for, free time, love, friends, no worries about money over torture and war and rape.

it is simply self evident.

38 minutes ago, Shin said:

If someone was raping, then torturing, then killing a child in front of them, they wouldn't even blink ...

Ok i guess there is use in believing your emotions and feelings aren't real either simply because sometimes they are in the way of going to a better outcome but maybe this is just mental toughness for example when i'm on the operation table i want the surgeon to be mentally tough but i would not go any further then that and there it is clear what a better outcome is namely me being brought back to good health.

My biggest issue with all this is,

Where do you want to go with all this, what is the purpose?

I personally take the stance that good/evil/morality are absolute and that there are absolute standards we need to uphold now there is a LOT of room how to decide upon this i think but that should be determined with rational convincing arguments.

This will give you some purpose to your life, something to aim for.

And it is very simple why i take this stance, it simply works for me it is self evident i try to be open minded tho and i do see tremendous worth in eastern philosophy but i would say u take it to far. 

 

 

[Viking]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

On one hand you don't care at all, but at the same time you do everything you can to help

Shinzen young answered the question of what is the point of enlightenment in one of his videos. He said it was "love".

I think on the lower levels it seems like you shouldnt care, but most extremely advanced masters have unimaginable love and care for everything, so I dont think that "not caring" is truly the ultimate thing that can be, but just a stage under the ultimate care.

[Hsinav]

On 2017-07-24 at 1:17 PM, Shin said:

 

Rape and torture and murder is as much love as you loving your kids or your partner.

 

The only question is: How do you relate to this new information?

 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hsinav
My cat walked on the keyboard

[Steph1988]

@Shin Well are u willing to take on what i said? 

I don't intend really for a debate but i'm not convinced that the opening sentence is true and maybe you could help me understanding better.

I ultimately see no good reason to look that way at the world and Leo has not convinced me either with his stance on morality yet ( of course i still appreciate most of his stuff tho) but i want to do some critical thinking on this on not just accept everything that would even be boring don't u think?

but i'm still interested to how this still might work out got to stay open minded.

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightened people don't need rules for their morality.  Enlightened people are like super-rebellious people who circled back to morality, but not by formulating dogma, but by learning to trust their higher selves 100%.  This is where relativism and pragmatism marry and have a child.  You can live your life, you can know morality, but you don't need to externalize it.  And you can be openminded and not need to cling to any kind of knowledge about it.  Just do what the higher Self wants.  You have no control anyway.  All you can do is cause increased awareness in your distributed system.  Nature is the sum total of all causes.  You are not outside of this system.

2 key videos on point to watch:

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Ananta]

On 7/24/2017 at 8:26 AM, Ilya said:

but most extremely advanced masters have unimaginable love and care for everything,

That's because they've come full circle and know everything is "the Self"(awareness/consciousness).

Therefore, all is one and there is nothing, but themselves.

A movie created by them, starring them, that they are watching.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Anna1

[Joseph Maynor]

@Anna1

2 hours ago, Anna1 said:

That's because they've come full circle and know everything is "the Self"(awareness/consciousness).

Therefore, all is one and there is nothing, but themselves.

A movie created by them, starring them, that they are watching.

Wow.  This is great.  Total summary.

I've tweaked your language a bit --

Come full circle and know everything is "the Self"(awareness/consciousness).  All is one and there is nothing but us.  A movie created by us, starring us, that we are watching.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Ananta]

12 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Anna1

Wow.  This is great.  Total summary.

I've tweaked your language a bit --

Come full circle and know everything is "the Self"(awareness/consciousness).  All is one and there is nothing, but us.  A movie created by us, starring us, that we are watching.

 Thanks!

[Shin]

11 hours ago, Steph1988 said:

@Shin Well are u willing to take on what i said? 

I don't intend really for a debate but i'm not convinced that the opening sentence is true and maybe you could help me understanding better.

I ultimately see no good reason to look that way at the world and Leo has not convinced me either with his stance on morality yet ( of course i still appreciate most of his stuff tho) but i want to do some critical thinking on this on not just accept everything that would even be boring don't u think?

but i'm still interested to how this still might work out got to stay open minded.

I probably shouldn't have said that.
Not because it isn't true, but because some people will not understand what it means (their ego will use this as an excuse to do stupid shit).

There is not a lot to explain, except that everything is the self, and nothing is outside of it.
The self is pure love, except this isn't the kind of love we usually refers too, it is totally open and accept everything.

Even Hitler was loved by god, just as much as Jesus ...

Now, that doesn't mean we don't want a "better" world, in the sense of a more peaceful and compassionate humanity.
I definitely want that, because If I look retrospectively to "my" life just 1 year before, it was a total mess and I was suffering greatly every day.

it just means there is nothing wrong, except in the human mind, which is totally relative.
It's just an exercice to impose on your mind, one of the best, because if you can truly accept everything and everyone as it is.

It is exactly at this moment that you can start changing things according to your perspective AND be at peace and love everyone else as they are, and not what you think they should be.
Accepting everything and to know there is not better in anything in life doesn't mean you let every psycho do their shit, it only means you won't be mad at them, and still act against them if needed.

[Steph1988]

@Shin Got it i understand u better now i think.

you just accept the situation as it comes no matter how tough your situation is that is the only way to grow and that is also the best of getting stuff done.

From a practical perspective i guess i understand.

maybe we are in agreement actually but we use different words and that is logical because its all so incredibly nuanced.

[SOUL]

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, yes, my client raped, tortured and murdered that child which he did it out of love and since he is enlightened it cannot be held against him according to an unawakened morality but you being unenlightened and conditioned cannot understand it. The defense rests.

*crickets*

[Joseph Maynor]

@SOUL

8 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, yes, my client raped, tortured and murdered that child which he did it out of love and since he is enlightened it cannot be held against him according to an unawakened morality but you being unenlightened and conditioned cannot understand it. The defense rests.

*crickets*

That only resonates with the monkey-mind perspective.  

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@SOUL

That only resonates with the monkey-mind perspective.  

If it was your child how would it resonate?