This Is How Buddhism And Vedanta Define The Absolute

[Ananta]

@Joseph Maynor In Vedanta, Mithya (illusion) is also Brahman. 

The world is illusion

Brahman alone is real

The world is Brahman.

[Shanmugam]

Known technically as 'the Absolute' (brahman), it is of the nature of immediate experience, void of all the attributes of transmigratory life. This is the meaning of the word 'that' (in the phrase 'That thou art'), familiar to the experts in the Upanishads.

 - Shankara (B.S.Bh.IV.i .2)

In the case of enquiry into the Vedic ritual, the Vedic and other traditional texts alone are the criterion. But this is not so in the case of the enquiry into the Absolute. Here it is the same texts that are the authority, but with immediate experience (and firm remembrance, etc.) added in the case of the purely metaphysical texts . For knowledge of the Absolute requires to culminate in immediate experience (anubhava), and (unlike the part of the Veda dealing with commands and prohibitions) has an already-existent reality for its object.

- Shankara (B.S. Bh.I.i.2)

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Known technically as 'the Absolute' (brahman), it is of the nature of immediate experience, void of all the attributes of transmigratory life.

Are you trying to say there is no transmigration in Mithya (illusion)? 

[Shanmugam]

@Anna1 no, not related to what you said just now... I was typing a post but accidentally submitted before completing.. I am completing it now

 

 

[Loreena]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

It meets you in duality (ie. Karma yoga, ect), to bring you out of it. 

What does karma yoga mean. I've heard of yoga but never heard of this. Is this another type of yoga exercise ? 

 

[Shanmugam]

I accidentally submitted the prior  message while I didnt complete it.. The purpose of the excerpts above and the ones below is to show the purpose of all the teaching... Here is the full post:

Known technically as 'the Absolute' (brahman), it is of the nature of immediate experience, void of all the attributes of transmigratory life. This is the meaning of the word 'that' (in the phrase 'That thou art'), familiar to the experts in the Upanishads.

 - Shankara (B.S.Bh.IV.i .2)

In the case of enquiry into the Vedic ritual, the Vedic and other traditional texts alone are the criterion. But this is not so in the case of the enquiry into the Absolute. Here it is the same texts that are the authority, but with immediate experience (and firm remembrance, etc.) added in the case of the purely metaphysical texts . For knowledge of the Absolute requires to culminate in immediate experience (anubhava), and (unlike the part of the Veda dealing with commands and prohibitions) has an already-existent reality for its object.

- Shankara (B.S. Bh.I.i.2)

Repeated resort to the appropriate means of knowledge is indeed useless in the case of the person who can attain immediate experience of the fact that his true Self is the Absolute merely from hearing the text 'That thou art' spoken once. But for him who is not able to do so, repetition is the proper means.

- Shankara in (B.S.Bh.IV.i .2)

True, it has been said that the Veda itself proclaims that reason must be respected, as it enjoins pondering as well as hearing. But this should not be used as a pretext for allowing empty hypothetical reasoning to gain entry. For in the present context only those arguments that are sanctioned by the Veda may be resorted to, and that only as an auxiliary to the attainment of direct experience.

- Shankara in  (B.S.Bh. II. i. 6)

 

[Ananta]

2 minutes ago, Loreena said:

What does karma yoga mean. I've heard of yoga but never heard of this. Is this another type of yoga exercise ? 

 

In Vedanta, none of the yogas pertain to exercise. 

Karma yoga- "Of the paths to spiritual liberation in Hinduism, karma yoga is the path of unselfish action. It teaches that a spiritual seeker should act according to dharma, without being attached to the fruits or personal consequences."

It's giving your actions to Isvara (God) and accepting all results as a gift.

[Ananta]

@Shanmugam what are you trying to say? I'd rather hear from you, then this complicated reading... 

[Shanmugam]

2 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

@Shanmugam what are you trying to say? I'd rather hear from you, then this complicated reading... 

1) Absolute cannot be described in words. Hence, there is no way to impart the knowledge of it without the teaching method called 'adhyaropa apavada'.

2) All the concepts, words, ideas that are used are deliberately superimposed in self to make people understand, then even those attributes are also negated.

3) The purpose of the whole teaching method is to culminate in the direct experience.

 

[Toby]

20 minutes ago, Loreena said:

What does karma yoga mean. I've heard of yoga but never heard of this. Is this another type of yoga exercise ?

I'm not an expert, but afaik Yoga could be approached with different ways; you have Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga (which are e.g. described in the Bhagavad Gita) and Raja Yoga (which is described in the Yoga Sutra). Other forms of Yoga can have different elements from them here and there or have their own exercises but it does make sense to differentiate as a basic understanding four paths: http://www.sivananda.org/teachings/fourpaths.html

[Ananta]

16 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

1) Absolute cannot be described in words. Hence, there is no way to impart the knowledge of it without the teaching method called 'adhyaropa apavada'.

2) All the concepts, words, ideas that are used are deliberately superimposed in self to make people understand, then even those attributes are also negated.

3) The purpose of the whole teaching method is to culminate in the direct experience.

 

To me, this is obvious... maybe not to others?

[Joseph Maynor]

@Anna1 The world may be illusion, but the Truth is not illusion.  The Truth is reality.  Reality is real, not illusory.  Maya is a belief, an ideology.  Maya does not capture Awareness, the Self, or the Truth.  Quite the reverse actually.  Awareness captures Maya as an idea, a belief.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Ananta]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Anna1 The world may be illusion, but the Truth is not illusion.  The Truth is reality.  Reality is real, not illusory.  

Are you playing word games? Did I say Brahman wasn't reality/truth/real?

The point was illusion/Mithya is also Brahman, as there is only Brahman.

Again, the world is illusion, Brahman alone is real, the world IS Brahman.

For discrimination purposes we negate all phenomena as Mithya, but after some time you will recognize that what you negated, is also the Self (capital "S"). All is you, awareness.

You chopped wood and carried water prior to Self-realization, you chop wood and carry water after Self-realization. 

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

To me, this is obvious... maybe not to others?

I just replied to your question, since you said you wanted to hear from me what I wanted to say... 

I started this thread with an intention to show everyone how Vedanta and Buddhism are not contradictory to each other.. They are essentially  the same and lead to the same goal.

[Ananta]

8 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

I just replied to your question, since you said you wanted to hear from me what I wanted to say... 

I started this thread with an intention to show everyone how Vedanta and Buddhism are not contradictory to each other.. They are essentially  the same and lead to the same goal.

Oh, I wasn't being sarcastic. ..don't misunderstand, I was just agreeing really. Btw, thanks for summing up what you were saying.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Anna1