Can You Help Me Understand This: You Don't Perceive The Truth, You Are It

[Joseph Maynor]

I get this, but I want some more elaboration from you.  

The distinction between awareness and things aware of is false.  The Self is Truth.  Atman (Self) = Brahman (Truth).  

The Truth is embedded in awareness, so all of reality is like the Self's body.  So the container and the stuff contained is a false distinction.  Similar to the false inner and outer distinction.  All of Reality is one flow.

I'm doing inquiry on this right now.  So, this is not just philosophizing.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

13 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

words words noise mental noise words logic words veracity noise mental objects words noise

self inquiry is not supposed to give you answers. it's supposed to get you to an "unaswerable" state. it's supposed to break your mind and expose your irremediable ignorance. it's supposed to destroy your intellectual pride.

if you really want to do it, stop asking others and get used to not knowing. nobody else can help you. we can only frustrate you and that's probably our job.

Edited July 15, 2017 by ajasatya

[Principium Nexus]

I think you title already contains all you need. You don't have to understand it, you are already the living truth.

[Truth]

I agree with @ajasatya if you want more concepts and labels keep doing what you’re doing. If you want truth and to truly grasp the significance, grounding it in direct experience it will reveal everything you want to know and without it you'll just be lost in concepts. And that's really the strategy for understanding anything. Especially deep concepts. We’re just pointing at truth with concepts for you to directly experience it.

 

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor forget the words for this and that.  its all you.   look around and allow yourself to be fascinated.  that is you.  

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor

The gist of Advaita is in the following three statements.

1) Brahman is real

2) World is illusory

3) Brahman is world

The first two statements are intended to help you with inquiry and practice.. The third statement describes what you realize when you do the practice. What you are saying sounds like a rephrasing of the third statement..

 

[Shanmugam]

 brahma satyam jaganmithyA jIvo brahmaiva nAparah anena vedyam sacchAstram iti vedAntaDiNDimah--

Translation : "Brahman is real, the universe is mithya (it cannot be categorized as either real or unreal). The jiva is Brahman itself and not different. This should be understood as the correct SAstra. This is proclaimed by Vedanta."

It is the verse 20 of Brahmajnanavalimala   http://sanskritdocuments.org/sites/snsastri/brahmajnaanaavalimaalaa.pdf

You can actually interpret the verse more clearly like this:

"The seer is the real, the seen is illusory; There is no difference between the seer and the seen"

[Joseph Maynor]

14 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Joseph Maynor

The gist of Advaita is in the following three statements.

1) Brahman is real

2) World is illusory

3) Brahman is world

The first two statements are intended to help you with inquiry and practice.. The third statement describes what you realize when you do the practice. What you are saying sounds like a rephrasing of the third statement.

 

I don't know that the world is illusory.  Reality is very real.  I was hung up on the idea that reality is illusory myself until recently.  No, reality is real.  The perceptual field is real.  There is just no you perceiving it.  You are it.  What is illusory is the conceptual augmentation of reality.  

Edited July 15, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor  You know, most of the problems arise because of translation...  World is not really illusory, but impermanent and constantly changing.. The original Sanskrit word for the illusory is 'mithya', which doesn't mean that it is unreal, but it is less real (or you can say apparently real) when compared to the seer of the world. If you see a movie in a movie theater, the screen is more real than the movie it shows..

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor  Read this: https://www.advaita-vision.org/origin-and-meaning-of-the-word-mithya/ . It describes what exactly it is meant by the word 'mithya'...

[Shanmugam]

 You are the Truth

Carrying the weight of past in my head
And dragging the scenes which were old and dead,
I ran to grab the bliss of the future;
The more I ran, the more was the torture..

The torture of the hedonic treadmill
Followed me as I continued uphill;
I was caught in the prison of craving
With tedious thoughts, my mind was raving.

I met an ugly old man on the way
who had a long thick beard with shades of grey.
His face was shining with heavenly bliss;
In his eyes I saw an endless abyss!

"What makes you so happy in this rat race?",
I asked him as he slowly turned his face.
He replied,"The answer is within you!
The grand kingdom of God is within you!"

"That's a joke", I said "Are you kidding me?".
"No!" He said, "Turn inward, you'll become free!
You've made your own boundaries inside your mind,
You've closed your eyes and think you've become blind".

I said, "How can I get out of this trap?
I want to find the way, give me the map"
He said, "You're the way, the truth and the life!
Be still and know you're that, and end this strife!

You’re not your body and you’re not your mind;
Not knowing the timeless truth makes you blind;
You’re not your story and you’re not your thoughts;
You’re not those age old, buried mental knots.

You’re not that chattering voice in your head;
You’re not anything that you did or said;
You’re not anything that you have or know
You’re the truth that is watching all this show!

You’re not anything that can be perceived;
You’re not an object that can be observed;
You’re the screen where the world is being played;
You’re the emptiness where the form is made.

You’re the one witnessing the mind and breath;
You’re one without two, beyond birth and death;
Like the air trapped in a small round bubble,
You feel separate which brings all the trouble.

Inquire inside and wake up from this dream!
Let truth alone shine like a bright white beam!
By inquiry, your illusions will break;
You’ll stop mistaking the rope for a snake"

Hearing these words stopped my thoughts for a while.
Looking in, I slowly began to smile.
I watched my thoughts as they slowly passed by;
I observed my mind like a secret spy.

For years, I contemplated on his words;
I watched my thoughts fly like a bunch of birds.
One day, I woke up and realized the truth;
Since then my life has been peaceful and smooth!

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor none of that is real.

[Zephyr]

Another way of saying this is "What ever you percieve, you are not"

The Camera Analogy; What ever the camera is percieving is not the camera. Even an image of the reflection of the camera does not make it the camera

p.s. I don't really quite get this either

[Shin]

Do you realize that most of the post of this forum are just concepts that people wants to believe in, feeding their heads with more thoughts to think about instead of doing the real "work" which is to simply be.

This is a stage that is necessary, that you have to go through, but don't get stuck in it for too long, because most people get stuck here for years, even decades ...

You don't need to believe anything to realize this, you actually have to be in a state where you really don't know, and that means letting go of all concepts and beliefs.

Of course this can't happen (it could, but it is very unlikely) if you don't practice meditation/mindfulness etc ... because if you are lost in thoughts all the time, how can you ever be present to see reality as it is ?

[Shanmugam]

[Joseph Maynor]

@Shanmugam Understood.  Thanks for the clarification.  I realize words are elusive without contextual details.  Especially with enlightenment concepts which are already little models parroting the Truth at best.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Joseph Maynor