The No Self And My Thoughts On It

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

This is an article from Shinzen Young:
 

Quote

Everyone has a sense of self. Upon careful investigation we discover that this sense of self consists of ideas and body sensations which arise and fade moment by moment. Such ideas and body sensations might be described as "self-referential" i.e. they are related to producing a sense of self. Most spiritual traditions encourage some kind of letting go of self or ego. Buddhism in particular puts great emphasis on realizing "no self."

Personally, I like to view this as a process of clarifying the sense of self. This clarification proceeds in two stages, corresponding to the two meanings of the English word "clarify." Something becomes clear when it goes from being nebulous to being distinct. But also, something becomes clear when it goes from being opaque to being transparent.

Through consistent practice we develop the skill of mindfulness which allows us to detect with great clarity the often nebulous self-referential ideas and body sensations as they arise in each act of perception. We also develop equanimity so that we can allow these ideas and body sensations to expand and contract without suppression, interference or clinging. Eventually contact with the sense of self becomes so continuous that there is no time left to congeal or fixate it. The self then becomes clarified in the sense that it is no longer experienced as an opaque, rigid, ever-present entity, but rather as a transparent, elastic, vibratory activity. It loses its "thingness." We realize that it is a verb not a noun, a wave not a particle.

This elastic sense of self can freely contract down to zero. We then realize a state of true peace and oneness with all things. It can also expand as a vibrant, zestful, deeply human yet non-substantial activity of individual personality. The former is no self in the sense of zero self, and the latter is no self in the sense of no fixated thing called a self.

According to this paradigm, in enlightenment the unconsciousness and fixation associated with those ideas and body sensations which produce a sense of self get eliminated. The sense of self becomes a home rather than a prison. You can come and go freely.

But, you may ask, "Who becomes free? What observes the ideas and body sensations?" Such questions arise from two sources. One is perceptual and the other linguistic. These two are constantly reinforcing each other, resulting in deep and pervasive confusion. Ordinarily, each act of perception is accompanied by a new burst of self-referential ideas and body sensations. Because for most people those ideas and body sensations are both indistinct and congealed, they produce a sense of "thing" called doer or perceiver. This perception of doer or perceiver as entity becomes ensconced in the grammatical structure of human speech as substantive pronouns (I, you, who). Thus the perception of "self as thing" is reinforced with almost every utterance we speak.

It is for this reason that questions like, "What does the observing?" or "Who gets enlightened?" seem so natural and yet are so difficult to answer. Grammatically, interrogative pronouns (who, what) must be answered with substantive nouns (this, that). In point of fact no thing meditates or gets wisdom. Rather, the skills of mindfulness and equanimity become so strong and habitual that they "seep around the edges" and soak into the ideas and body sensations that are producing the sense of an "I" practicing meditation.

After reading this and ponder about this stuff for several weeks and months I came to some "conclusions":

We, as human beings are able to think, just like no other animal. We have the power and gift to remember the past and anticipate the future thanks to our minds and thoughts. Even though this is our greatest gift is also our greatest nightmare. We, thanks to culture and probably the nature of the human brain, started to believe that we are our thoughts: that we are this, or that (note that existentially, the belief of "I'm a person" and "I'm a rock" are the same, just constructions of the mind"). So even though we can use our mind to think about past and future we started to believe that thoughts are real (they are structurally real, but the content itself has no value, they are thoughts). We forgot, since we believe that we are they thoughts we produce, that the only real thing is what is happening right now, the ONLY TRUE THING. It seems so logical that we don't exist as we think but it is so difficult to destroy this illusion and belief. I really don't like the "You don't exist"  mentality; you exist but not in the way you think you are (it will be probably 100x better). The truth is that YOU ARE and that's it; I don't want you to relax with this statement (since I'm not enlightened and this are conceptualizations of the mind), YOU DONT KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS TO. I don't know who am I really, I only know conceptually that I think I'm a body and a mind but I notice that these are thoughts and thoughts are existentially a sound in space that someone is listening. I guess this illusion is pretty difficult to break since there is a subconscious mind and tremendous complex systems that are working to maintain the sense of your current "self"

I dont want you to be upset because I'm trying to explain this thing called enlightenment. All your definitions of enlightenment are just conceptualizations of the mind so don't waste time trying to know what it is, it's damaging you.

I've been suffering a lot from this, that is why I'm think that when people tell you that you don't exist they are trying to explain the explainable; you obviously exist, who do you think is reading this shit. The point is that you don't exist as you really think but you are something that I can't even grasp on.

 

 

[99th_monkey]

it's so simple and meaningless that your mind ignores it or makes it so complex and paradoxical to make it confusing. 

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

@99th_monkey don't think it's meaningless.. Those are concepts of the mind and make people depressed.. Enlightenment is justwho you really are and that's it.. Any description of it is meaningless. So we should stop defining enlightenment and say that is just the truth of who you really are existenxially. 

[99th_monkey]

how do you know that?

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

@99th_monkey I no shit about enlightenment, that is why I dont make suggestions nor judgments

[99th_monkey]

On 2/19/2016 at 11:45 PM, jcgiusto said:

@99th_monkey don't think it's meaningless.. Those are concepts of the mind and make people depressed.. Enlightenment is justwho you really are and that's it.. Any description of it is meaningless. So we should stop defining enlightenment and say that is just the truth of who you really are existenxially. 

lots of "knowing" there.... no? 

[Galyna]

On 2/19/2016 at 10:45 PM, jcgiusto said:

@99th_monkey don't think it's meaningless.. Those are concepts of the mind and make people depressed.. Enlightenment is justwho you really are and that's it.. Any description of it is meaningless. So we should stop defining enlightenment and say that is just the truth of who you really are existenxially. 

I wish it would be that simple

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

@99th_monkey it's a knowing of not knowing but , at the end, it's my opinion