Growing Ego Consciously - How ?????

[Seeker_of_truth]

Yesterday I saw a discourse of Osho (https://youtu.be/xR_fnaingYA) where he said that the ego must first be allowed to grow. Only when it is ripe, when it is a burden to carry, it will drop on its own and thus there will be no one who is dropping it and thus no ego will be left. So Osho says allow ego to grow to drop it.

I've watched a lot of videos of sadhguru where I think he advises to drop it. "Be a little less of what you are", etc.

I think the second advise is for those whose egos are ripe and they are already suffering so much because of it.

Now I'm confused on what to do... How do I know if my ego is ripe or not ?

After I knew about the concept of ego, I could see how my ego was responsible for my sufferings. How me playing my role prevented me from playing another role which I needed to play in some circumstances. Since then I started to mess with it. Whenever I could catch myself suffering the negatives or too much positivity of my ego, I would step back consider the options available and see if I could do something that I normally would be hesitant to do. Hesitant because that's not my normal way of doing things. So I started doing things that I normally wouldn't do. I felt like playing a game and I think it has left me more happy. Sometimes happy just because I did something that I wouldn't have done normally and that felt like an achievement (This makes me think if I'm actually changing my ego instead of dropping it and I think this is the trap that Osho talked about in that discourse).

But till now for my entire life I don't think I have ever been depressed. Sometimes I would feel really down but it never lasted long. Or maybe I never let it last long... I would find things to get myself going again when I'm feeling crappy. Does this mean I've never let my ego grow so much that it could cause me a lot of suffering that I couldn't manage ? So does that mean my ego isn't ripe enough to be dropped ? But the thought of growing the ego when I know its the cause of suffering is scary... And the suffering is not only for me but also I would be causing some amount of suffering to everyone around me. And Osho says to grow the ego consciously... How the hell do you do that ???

[Seeker_of_truth]

@Prabhaker Being an osho expert (), I think you can say something on this.? 

[Loreena]

 

 

@Seeker_of_truth

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/12391-what-constitutes-a-healthy-ego/

The following posts from my recent  thread were found to be useful with respect to your post. 

 

22 hours ago, Toby said:

Healthy ego? Egos that are altruistic, loving, caring, can set clear boundaries and say no, are honest.

 

13 hours ago, ajasatya said:

• a peaceful mind
• healthy eating habits
• an exercising routine
• no possessiveness towards others
• the willpower to live today
• compassion

 

On 7/9/2017 at 8:27 AM, Natasha said:

Benefits of the Ego (by Ralph Smart): 

- it's connected to our subconscious mind and serves as a survival mechanism during evolution

- it helps us learn about and appreciate contrast, without contrast we would never learn about onenness

- it helps us clean up filters and become more authentic

- it teaches us about our limitations, which makes us see the beauty of living in the heart space

- it competes, dominates, and controls, which helps us see these things as an illusion

- it divides, which helps us create unity and more love

- it connects us to the lower self and cheers us on to the higher self

- it helps us know ourselves by going into the wilderness and realizing that everything society taught us about who we are is a lie

- spotting ego helps stop letting it rule us and bring more wonderful and amazing people into our life  

 

 

On 7/9/2017 at 9:02 AM, Shanmugam said:

@Loreena  Ego has defense mechanisms... Psychologically we can define what is normal and what is not in terms of defense mechanisms.

Let me quote from wikipedia to explain:

In psychoanalytic theory, defense mechanisms  are psychological strategies brought into play by the unconscious mind to manipulate, deny, or distort reality in order to defend against feelings of anxiety and unacceptable impulses and to maintain one's self-schema.

The psychiatrist George Eman Vaillant introduced a four-level classification of defence mechanisms:[21]

Level I – pathological defences (psychotic denial, delusional projection)

Level II – immature defences (fantasy, projection, passive aggression, acting out)

Level III – neurotic defences (intellectualization, reaction formation, dissociation, displacement, repression)

Level IV – mature defenses (humour, sublimation, suppression, altruism, anticipation)...

So a healthy ego can be said as something that has level 4 defense mechanisms.. If you go to that wiki article, you can see that each one of those defense mechanisms have individual articles.

But, remember.. You are in a forum that deals with spiritual enlightenment.  It involves transcending the identification with the egoistic self altogether. Even if someone takes a therapy for resolving unhealthy issues in ego, many therapists will suggest mindfulness as one of the treatments. The same practice when done for extensive period of time eventually leads to awakening and defense mechanisms begin to loose strength.

Check out this link:

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=iboTrtb3QIAC&lpg=PA80&ots=5GuWmsPlGB&dq=observer self cbt&pg=PA79#v=onepage&q=observer self cbt&f=false

 

On 7/9/2017 at 9:36 AM, Leo Gura said:

A healthy is ego is one that is willing to agree to annihilate itself, and does so of its own wisdom, without being prodded into it.

An unhealthy ego is one which is unwilling to acknowledge its own unreality and its own shenanigans.

 

[Seeker_of_truth]

@Loreena I've read this thread, its from one its replies that i got this question. I think the things that you've quoted don't answer the question of how to grow ego consciously, it just explains the traits of egos.

[Prabhaker]

14 minutes ago, Seeker_of_truth said:

Now I'm confused on what to do... How do I know if my ego is ripe or not ?

“THE EGO is you. You cannot move towards surrender; in fact you are the barrier, so whatsoever you do will be wrong. You cannot do anything about it. You simply, without doing anything, have to be aware. This is an inner mechanism: whatsoever you do is done by the ego, and whenever you don’t do anything and remain just a witness, the non ego part of you starts functioning. The witness is the non-ego within you and the doer is the ego. The ego cannot exist without doing anything. Even if you do something to surrender, it will strengthen the ego and your surrender will become again a very subtle egoistic standpoint. You will say, ‘I have surrendered.’ You will claim surrender, and if somebody says that it is not true, you will feel angry, hurt. The ego is now there trying to surrender. The ego can do anything; the only thing that the ego cannot do is non doing, witnessing.

So just sit silently, watch the doer, and don’t try in any way to manipulate it. The moment you start manipulating, the ego has come back. Nothing can be done about it; one has just to be a witness to the misery that ego creates, of the false pleasures and gratifications that ego promises. Doings in this world and doings in the other world; the spiritual world, the Divine, the material, whatsoever the realm, the doer will re main the ego. You are not supposed to do anything and if you start doing something you will miss the whole point. Just be there, watch, understand, and don’t do. Don’t ask, ‘How to drop the ego?’ Who will drop it? Who will drop whom? When you don’t do anything, suddenly the witnessing part is separate from the doer; a gap arises. The doer goes on doing and the seer goes on seeing. Suddenly, you are filled with a new light, a new benediction: you are not the ego, you have never been the ego; how foolish that you ever believed in it.

There are people who are trying to fulfill their egos; they are wrong. There are people who are trying to drop their egos; they are wrong. Because when the witness arises you simply see the whole game. There is nothing to be fulfilled and nothing to be dropped. The ego is not of any substance. It is made of the same stuff that dreams are made of. It is just an idea, an air bubble — just hot air within you and nothing else. You need not drop it, because in the very dropping or in asking how to drop it, you believe in it, you are still clinging to it.

The Alchemy Of Yoga ~ Osho

It is impossible. The ego cannot be sacrificed because the ego exists not. The ego is just all idea: it has no substance in it. It is not something – it is just pure nothing. You give it reality by believing in it. You can withdraw belief and the reality disappears, evaporates.

The ego is a kind of absence. Because you don’t know yourself, hence the ego. The moment you know yourself, no ego is found. The ego is like darkness; darkness has no positive existence of its own; it is simply the absence of light. You cannot fight with darkness, or can you? You cannot throw darkness out of the room; you cannot take it out, you cannot take it in. You cannot do anything with darkness directly. If you want to do anything with darkness, you will have to do something with light. If you put the light on, there is no darkness; if you put the light off, there is darkness.

Darkness is only the absence of light, so is ego: absence of self-knowledge. You cannot sacrifice it.

It has been told to you again and again: “Sacrifice your ego” – and the statement is patently absurd, because something that does not exist cannot be sacrificed. And if you try to sacrifice it, something which is not there in the first place at all, you will be creating a new ego – the ego of the humble, the ego of the egoless, the ego of the person who thinks he has sacrificed his ego. It will be a new kind of darkness again.

No, I don’t say to you sacrifice the ego. On the contrary, I say try to see where the ego is. Look deep into it; try to locate it, where it exists, whether it exists at all or not. Before one can sacrifice anything one must be certain about its existence.

But don’t be against it from the very beginning. If you are against it, you cannot look deep into it. There is no need to be against anything. The ego is your experience – maybe it is just apparent, but it is still your experience. Your whole life moves around the phenomenon of the ego. It may be a dream, but to you it is so true.

There is no need to be against it. Dive deep into it, go into it. Going into it means bringing awareness into your house, bringing light into darkness. Be alert, watchful. Watch the ways of the ego, how it functions, how it manages at all. And you will be surprised: the deeper you go into it, the less it is found. And when you have penetrated to the very core of your being, you will find something totally different which is not ego, which is egolessness. It is self, supreme self – it is godliness. You have disappeared as a separate entity; you are no more an island. Now you are part of the whole.

Osho, The Fish in the Sea is Not Thirsty, Talk #12

33 minutes ago, Seeker_of_truth said:

Does this mean I've never let my ego grow so much that it could cause me a lot of suffering that I couldn't manage ? 

If the ego is unmanageable, and a seeker of truth reaches an understanding that ego is the problem he can easily dissolve a ripened ego, not by efforts to drop but by watching.

If your ego is not strong, it is manageable , still you can drop , but it is more difficult than dropping a ripened ego. Don't be in a hurry to drop it, just watch it. 

[Loreena]

1 minute ago, Prabhaker said:

 

 

If your ego is not strong, it is manageable , still you can drop , but it is more difficult than dropping a ripened ego. Don't be in a hurry to drop it, just watch it. 

I think you made a mistake. Maybe you meant to say- If your ego is not strong, it is manageable , still you can drop , but it is more difficult than dropping a subtle ego. 

That's what you told me before.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Loreena said:

If your ego is not strong, it is manageable , still you can drop , but it is more difficult than dropping a subtle ego. 

Subtle ego is hard to detect, it is not ripened.

[Loreena]

5 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

 

There are people who are trying to fulfill their egos; they are wrong. There are people who are trying to drop their egos; they are wrong.  

What are you implying ? Do you mean to say that one should just accept the current state of their ego ?  And not do anything. What benefit does it have for the self ?

[Prabhaker]

4 minutes ago, Loreena said:

If your ego is not strong, it is manageable , still you can drop , but it is more difficult than dropping a subtle ego. 

Subtle ego is manageable, it is  more difficult than dropping a ripened ego.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Loreena said:

Do you mean to say that one should just accept the current state of their ego ?  And not do anything.

You can't do anything with ego, you can only become a witness, a watcher. By witnessing you become more conscious, by watching it drops.

[Seeker_of_truth]

@Prabhaker The ego drops when it is ripe. Its drops when we become a witness. Okay.... So I've to simply wait and watch and not mess with it till it ripens ?

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Seeker_of_truth said:

Its drops when we become a witness. Okay.... So I've to simply wait and watch

What else can you do ?

[Leo Gura]

@Seeker_of_truth The most important aspects of the wounded ego to fix are:

• Low self-esteem
• Victim mentality, refusing to take 100% responsibility for your life.
• Drama, making everything into stories
• Negative self-talk
• Childhood trauma, abuse, rape, etc.
• Mommy and Daddy issues
• Hard addictions like drugs, sex, food, etc.
• Depression, nihilism, anger, jealousy, greed, pettiness
• Neediness for love or approval
• Sexual repression, guilt, moralization
• Lying, cheating, stealing
• Religious indoctrination, severe closedmindness, ideologicalness

Basically, therapy work.

[ajasatya]

8 minutes ago, Loreena said:

What does this mean ?

it means attachment to a mentally cultivated self-image that's subjected to arbitrary plots, which are also created by the mind.
this process is triggered by a type of misuse of the mind in which the person unconsciously starts to group memories in such an order that builds up the perfect victim (or the perfect hero).

why do i call it misuse of the mind? because the human access to the mind can be used for much more interesting tasks instead of wasting vital energy in such a petty addiction.

[Loreena]

11 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

it means attachment to a mentally cultivated self-image that's subjected to arbitrary plots, which are also created by the mind.
this process is triggered by a type of misuse of the mind in which the person unconsciously starts to group memories in such an order that builds up the perfect victim (or the perfect hero).

why do i call it misuse of the mind? because the human access to the mind can be used for much more interesting tasks instead of wasting vital energy in such a petty addiction.

This seems closer to victim mentality. I am not sure though. I thought it was weaving stories out of nothing, assuming stuff and making something else up, spreading gossip and rumours, making mountain out of a molehill, being extra dramatic and overreacting to things out of deep seated emotional triggers. I am not sure how right I am in my assessment but that's what it feels like. 

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, Loreena said:

This seems closer to victim mentality. I am not sure though. I thought it was weaving stories out of nothing, assuming stuff and making something else up, spreading gossip and rumours, making mountain out of a molehill, being extra dramatic and overreacting to things out of deep seated emotional triggers. I am not sure how right I am in my assessment but that's what it feels like. 

i see. these symptoms are certainly correlated.