Do We Actually Need To Commit To A Single Guru To Progress Past A Certain Point (for Enlightenment/kundalini Awakening)?

[Gerhard]

I've been hearing all my favorite internet-guru's and yogis talk about the imperative of consciously choosing one specific guru as your guru, and then focusing on that person's guru-ness (not the personality) during meditation.

They talk about the absolute necessity of a lineage linking back to adiyogi, sort of like passing on the divine flame. You can't create a spark on your own, your need the help of an enlightened being. Otherwise, enlightenment and/or a kundalini awakening won't happen - and spiritual progress is halted.

This is a bit of a huge topic - but I was hoping to get your guys' thoughts on this? I'm quite confused about so many sub-questions, and it's confusing me as to where to direct my meditation focus.

• What about all the people who report to have spontaneous kundalini awakenings? Who was their guru then?
• What exactly is initiation? Can you receive this through a book - like for instance, the Yoga Sutra, the Bible, etc.
• Can shiva himself be your guru? Or another deity?
• Can a person you have never met before (eg. you watch their videos on YouTube, or maybe who has passed) be your guru - or must the guru also consciously accept you?
• I've heard 'the star' is the guru - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm5UKnZnEU - I actually have seen a star like this (with an eye inside it though) during meditation - could I just accept this star as my guru?

I'd love anyone's experiences of this topic

Edited July 9, 2017 by Gerhard

[Leo Gura]

The whole notion is ridiculous, because by that logic, how did the first people become enlightened? Clearly they had no human gurus.

There are many people who have become enlightened completely on their own, without any gurus or guidance.

What's True is True regardless of gurus or any other social/cultural stuff.

By blindly following a guru, even if you get enlightened, you will be a sheep, spewing dogma left and right. Because you didn't actually rely on any intelligent process to get enlightenment. You just rolled the dice and got lucky. Even if you get lucky, you will still be a sheep.

The whole problem of religion in a nutshell: No one wants to really do the work by themselves. Everyone wants a crutch, some Daddy figure to guide you by the hand to the Truth.

Good luck with that. You might as well just suck on your guru's tit instead of gathering your own food.

[Toby]

A good teacher knows how to deal with projections, idealisations and attachments from students. They point you back towards yourself. Not wanting to commit, wanting to do it alone could easily be the ego - at least that is my experience. But overall life plays out different for everyone, some might not need a guru to awaken, but I actually have not heard of anyone who deepened what they experienced without any form of guidance.
Good example is Eckhart Tolle. His story goes that he was a little bit anxious, depressed and suicidal and then just woke up. The truth is he studied philosophy, psychology, mysticism, went to small religious groups and did the ACIM before his shift. After his shift he studied with several teachers (e.g. Barry Long) and monks. He also felt drawn very much towards Ramana Maharshi and Jiddu Krishnamurti.

[Gerhard]

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how did the first people become enlightened?

Well, this is getting into mysticism/religion - but allegedly by Shiva himself incarnating and teaching the 7 sages.

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By blindly following a guru, even if you get enlightened, you will be a sheep.

Yea I agree, this is the huge danger - and for sure there are charlatans who will abuse this. The flip side is, so is many teachers who seem 100% authentic in other ways, hold this as fact, and they'll even say they don't care or even recommend themself as the guru. (eg. The Guru is a possbility - don't miss it (Rohit Arya)). Generally, when many mystics say the same thing, I think careful consideration on that point is required. Even Jesus has a quote similar to this topic, and the Buddhists too heavily emphasize the importance of lineage.

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What's True is True regardless of gurus or any other social/cultural stuff.

That's true, but it's also true that a fire needs another flame (or a spark) to get it started. Just a metaphor, and might relate more to kundalini/fire than enlightenment - but interesting if you consider/believe that shaktipat exists.

 

Thank you for the reply Leo, good to hear your executive summary on the topic  I'd like to agree with you - it means I can focus on samadhi states rather than seeking the external world for 'my guru'.

[Shanmugam]

@Gerhard  When people asked Ramana Maharishi about Guru, he always insisted the Guru is inside you and the outer Guru is just an appearance.. You are the truth; so really, truth itself can guide you. This is what Buddha said when he said 'follow your own light'...

There is really no proper successive lineage from adiyogi and present day yogis except two... The only two yogic traditions which even talks about the first yogi are adinatha and nandinatha traditions. They have a lineage starting from Nandhinatha (not from Lord Shiva) and they insist on having a Guru. According to their view, a person cannot be enlightened without a physical guru. But that is not true always. 

Don't worry about kundalini awakenings... It doesn't happen the same way for everyone. It is better to forget about the concept of kundalini and not to worry about it.

Initiation is not a requisite as well. It is a practice in yoga and tantra, where a teacher initiates a student into practice. If you have already started seeking and have seen progress, you have been already initiated.

There is a convention in India to regard Dakshinamoorthy (a form of Shiva) as your guru, if you don't have a physical guru.

Yes, you can consider a person who you have never met as your guru. For me, I accepted Osho as my guru. I got all the guidance initially from his books alone. His books covers a wide range of questions asked by many seekers during many stages of progress in many situations. I literally felt like he was with me guiding me everyday.

But at the end of the day, Guru is only pointing the way. You are the one who has to walk the path. And finally, you will have to give up the attachment you have for the guru as well.  This is what is meant by the saying "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him".

We have 7 billion people in the world. Not everyone can get access to a physical Guru. If you don't have any idea where to start, then simply choose a teacher and read their book. Eventually you will find your way. Because, when you hear what is true, you will recognize it. 

But always remember, don't believe in anything that is said. Beliefs are not required in finding the truth. You don't have to believe in anything.. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Leo Gura I agree with this sentiment 100%.  Be your own guru first and foremost.  Never give up that spot for someone else to fill.  That is intellectual dependency.  Be eclectic in your studies.  You may have favorites, but no allegiances.  This is where I think religions have their origin point as human systems.  The function is thought-in-a-box, prepackaged thought systems.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Prabhaker]

5 hours ago, Gerhard said:

I've been hearing all my favorite internet-guru's and yogis talk about the imperative of consciously choosing one specific guru as your guru

You can seek, but you cannot find. But, still, seeking is necessary, because if you don't seek, nothing will happen. Go on seeking, but know that just by seeking you cannot find. It is impossible for the disciple to know who is the right guru for him. It is impossible for the lower to judge the higher. How can one judge that this is the right master? If you can judge, and decide, then you yourself have gone above the master.

The disciple can never find the master. Only the master can find the disciple. The disciple has to go on seeking and seeking and seeking just in order to be available for the master, so that when the right master comes, he can choose you.

Only the master can choose you; you cannot choose him. In old Egyptian scriptures it is said: When the disciple is ready the master appears. It is so. If you are ready, the master will appear. And your readiness is your availability; it is to be available.

Go on seeking. You will meet many teachers. Be humble. Learn, with reverence and gratitude. But remember that every teacher is not your master. You will have to wait for the right master to appear. Go on -- with deep humility, humbleness, receptivity. Move from teacher to teacher. You don't know who the master is, but when you have become ready, through this search, the master will choose you.

And the moment someone chooses you, be courageous enough to be chosen. When someone chooses you, don't try to escape. That's what happens. You may be in search of a master, but when the master chooses you and says, "Okay, I accept you," you may try to escape, because the master is like death.

I say, the master is like death. There is an old Indian saying: Acharya mrakue; the master is death. He is, because he will destroy you as you are so that someone new can be created. He will kill you in order to give you a rebirth. He will restructure you. He's going to give you rebirth, so death is necessary. That's why when the master chooses you, it appears as if death is coming. You may try to escape, remember. You cannot find the master, but when the master finds you, be ready to die; be ready to surrender.

But the fear is there: How am I to know that this man is the right master for me? How am I to know that he is the right one for me and now I should surrender? You cannot know even that. To know the right man you first have to be the right man. Otherwise, how can you know? You have no experience of being right, so how can you feel whether this man is right for you? If you are already capable of knowing who is the right master for you, there is no need for a master.

You cannot decide who is the right master for you. Even that is not possible. So what to do? But it is not a question of the right man; it is a question of surrender. Even if you surrender to the wrong man, surrender is helpful.

You may not be able to understand what I mean. Even to a false master, surrender is helpful; you are not losing anything. The real thing happens not because of the master; the real thing happens because of the surrender. If you have surrendered to a false master, no harm is going to happen to you. because a surrendered mind is protected by existence itself. No harm can be done to you. If you have surrendered to a false master, by your very surrender that false master may be helped and may become an authentic master. A real disciple changes a false master into an authentic master. The very surrendering is such a deep phenomenon that when it happens you are transformed and the other person is also transformed. But, that is not something to worry about.

Remember, no harm is going to happen to you if you surrender. Surrendering, in itself, is a miracle. Even if you have surrendered to a false master, you may learn many things from him. In this existence, nothing is a wastage. Even living with a false master is a learning. You are growing, you are becoming aware of certain things that you would never become aware of with an authentic master. You are maturing, you are becoming adult.

And now, after learning from a false master, no false master will ever appeal to you again. At least you will now be able to judge who is false. You may not be able to judge who is true, but the other half has already been learned: you can now judge who is false. And this is something worth learning! Now you can eliminate the false teachers, and the true teacher will be left. Now you know what is false. You will never again be magnetized by it.

So be humble even with a false master. Be respectful, be grateful, because you have learned many things from him. And when you leave him, leave with deep gratitude. Under him, you have become more mature.

This is the right attitude of the disciple. The question is never of the right master or the wrong master. The question is always of right discipleship. Don't think of the master at all. Just try to become a true disciple: the learning attitude, the receptivity to learn.

And be grateful. The world is a great school and the divine force uses every way and every means to create understanding in you. This understanding is helped by both the true and the false. Remember this. It will be helpful to you.

Osho~The New Alchemy: To Turn You On