What Constitutes A Healthy Ego ?

[SOUL]

@Joseph Maynor Yes, in a certain way the clinginess of the ego becomes less clingy, the craves become less cravey and the vice of identifying is less potent. Another facet of this is in how everything gets filtered through the lens of the ego is how we view our circumstances but as we choose not to accept the ego version of the situation the veil of it becomes less opaque and more transparent.

[Loreena]

On 7/9/2017 at 11:59 AM, jimrich said:

 

I "cultivated" mine by first seeing just how very sick and damaged it was and then undertaking a huge array of methods and systems to REPAIR it.  I gradually replaced habitual LYING with Rigorous Honesty, Contempt, with Respect, Hostility with friendship, Self contempt with Self Esteem work and self love - including "mirror work", chronic fear/cowardice with all the bravery I could manage, bitter hatred with understanding and forgiveness, irresponsibility with accountability, dishonor with dignity and on and on.   Each flaw or damaged characteristic in my ego was slowly and gradually REPLACED by a healthier one and there are still a few inside of me to be FIXED.  The one thing that did me the most good and still does is/was SELF ESTEEM work followed by respect for a Higher Power or the Divine Source.  Perhaps the Source should come first but I dove into Self Esteem right away as soon as I realized just how deeply damaged I was.

I  

This was somewhat vague. What specific techniques have you used during your healing process. You could elaborate on different therapy methods, emotion management techniques or any specific meditation methods that helped you. Any other physical/psychological methods used. Please name them. Thanks. 

@jimrich what happened ???

Edited July 10, 2017 by Loreena

[Bob84]

On 7/8/2017 at 6:35 PM, Loreena said:

Is there anything like a healthy Ego. And if it does exist or is beneficial for growth in life, then how should someone define it. 

What will be the characteristics of a healthy Ego ? And how should one cultivate it ?

Ever do something you dont agree with? Or dont do something you want? 

Ego A wants something but ego B screws ego A.

Ego C looks for personal development to fix ego A and B.

Makes sense? 

If there is something to fix you (or ego C) must know about it  

[Loreena]

Just now, jimrich said:

It could take a tremendous number of pages to itemize all that I did to "fix" my ego and life but I will simply start by saying that at about 48, I was having a very hard time with ordinary life and got so bad, drunk and dangerous that I DECIDED to go for help so I started by calling AA and they refereed me to a 12 step support group called ACoA - Adult children of Alcoholics anonymous.  I could see that this group was exactly right for me from the first night so I stayed on for several years and attended many other 12 step groups such as CODA, AL-ANON, INCEST SURVIVORS, AA, and some others. 

There was a lot of literature in these meetings for those who could not afford books but the best source of help was simply the stories told by the other members which inspired me to do or go find whatever method, system or technique the other members found useful.   I could list dozens of powrerful "techniques and methods" here but it won't mean much UNLESS a Survivor actually tries them.  

Right away I learned about 100% Honesty, which has to be here to counter my Denial and Delusion which is why most "normal" folks cannot do Recovery work because they cannot and will not be HONEST with themselves.   It was very hard to get Honest because I had lived a life of LYING about everything since about 6 y/o!   Then came "feelings" work which was a process of monitoring and observing my feelings and learning how to describe or verbalize my feelings.   That's hard for men because we do not learn nor use very many words or phrases in connection with our feelings and we generally minimize or completely ignore/deny our feelings - especially our tender or sentimental feelings.   I learned from others how to talk about my feelings and got pretty good at describing and examining my feelings/thoughts.  In the beginning, I had a huge array of very damaged and explosive feelings but never realized just how much was bottled up inside of me until I began doing grief and anger work and then this ocean of repressed, bottled up, RAGE burst forth and, had it not been for the help and support of other angry/hurting Survivors, I might have gone insane right there.  The avalanche of backed up explosive and violently ANGRY feelings was TERRIFYING!!!   So  I was mixing all kinds of techniques like "mirror-work" where you look at your self in a mirror and try to hold a steady, loving, friendly accepting GAZE for as long as possible WITHOUT judgement, criticism or FEAR!   I never found a single Survivor who cold or would do that!   I was introduced to my inner child and actually found two, a boy and a girl.   I did tons of affirmation work in self esteem to undo or refute the huge array of self contempt and self rejecting messages that were pumped into me back home.   I wrote down my angry/sad thoughts and feelings to my parents and others in dozens of journals to let the feelings come up and be released or Vented.  I did savage anger work such as beating up stuffed furniture with my dad's face mentally paste there.  I got so angry that I actually wanted to MURDER our dad with my bare hands but he was living over in Florida then.   Thanks to the courage and openness of other members, I began weeping and weeping almost from the start once I allowed my proud ego to LET go and get honest.   This compulsive weeping went on and on for about a year straight which really bothered a lot of others but, by then, I didn't care and just had to let my feelings come out.  Between weeping and anger work, most of that ocean of repressed, hidden pain and anger has been vented but there's still stuff in here.   I did fear work by going out walking in strange places late at night  in the dark and let myself be either scared silly or brave as possible.  Nothing ever happened in those "risks" !   I let my inner child spontaneously do things like go to a local carnival and get on the Ferris wheel - JUST FOR FUN!.   There were dozens of actions to break the rigid and stifling family rules I grew up under so my 2nd wife and I began doing stuff our parents would have flipped over like BELCHING in the car while drinking Pepsi, kissing in public or eating all the cake we wanted to, etc.   I adopted a Higher Power and worked with and through that quite a lot.   It was a time to stand up to the garbage I was raised under and begin feeling free and independent yet honest and responsible.   There were a lot of very good principles to adopt besides just Honesty or Accountability.   I made Amends to everyone I had even harmed or offended!   So far I have not seen even ONE apology back from anyone of them but I did my part!  I attended a Self Esteem workshop which helped and still helps me a lot.  There were so many techniques and methods and probably even more now so anyone interested in overcoming family trauma really needs to do their own investigations and feelings work.  I suspect that many folks unwittingly carry around a lot of "baggage" or hidden, unhealed feelings that do not show UNTIL the person mysteriously EXPLODES but then will go right back into Denial and the damaged feelings/energy NEVER get healed or safely Vented.  That is the basis of road rage, shootings and most if not ALL crime.  The bottom line in my therapy work was to expose and safely VENT the sea of damaged emotional energy or feelings that was bottled up inside of me for 48 years and was making a mess of my life and the lives of those close to me.   I was a ticking time bomb that nobody, including me, could ever "figure out".   Before I entered therapy, I was given all kinds of stupid and ignorant "reasons" for my weird and unsatisfactory behavior like: bad Karma, faulty genes,  a shitty attitude, something I ate, my peers, bad luck, some physical illness and on and on but nobody ever had the guts or brains to see that my basic problem was BAD PARENTING which produced BAD CONDITIONING!   In therapy, I found out just how bad my parents were but it took a while to FACE IT.  I did hours and hours of memory work to reconstruct my life using a life line technique where we draw a line on paper, divide it up by 5 year segments and then start writing in major events with positive, happy ones above the line and negative ones  below the line as best we can.   Each memory will trigger other memories in a time zone and pretty soon you have a meaningful image of your life or past.  I was NEVER taught to blame or seek revenge against my parents.   I was taught to look for THE TRUTH about my family and our past.   I have not completely forgiven my parents even tho I know that they also survived rotten childhoods with abusive or negligent parents but my focus was and still is on getting over the past and living the best life I can from now on.  I learned how to love and accept my self and others.   I probably left out some important techniques and methods so I may add those whenever I remember.  

@jimrichi.     thanks

[Prabhaker]

10 hours ago, SOUL said:

I think it's manipulating to tell someone they are born "diseased" and to then suggest the only way to be saved or heal from it is to believe the dogmatic beliefs of a religion or specific form of spirituality.

Read my posts again. I was suggesting her to stay away from eastern spirituality as she is interested in having a healthy ego, I was advocating that western psychology is good for her.

[Deep]

@Prabhaker The west also has an unhealthy ego because they teach political correctness. It means being nice just to please people. Some people in the west have a healthy ego but not everyone. Same thing is happening in the east. The whole population can't be generalized. 

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, Deep said:

The whole population can't be generalized. 

I was not talking about people, I was discussing about eastern spirituality and western psychology.

[Ananta]

9 hours ago, jimrich said:

@Anna1

LOL just put me on your Ignore List!   You are on mine now.

Classic case of, can dish out criticism, but can't take any. 

[SOUL]

2 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Read my posts again. I was suggesting her to stay away from eastern spirituality as she is interested in having a healthy ego, I was advocating that western psychology is good for her.

I could read it a million times and it doesn't change that it's being manipulative, I guess you may be unaware of how much so it is.

[Loreena]

Just now, jimrich said:

Another "technique" I forgot to mention is about setting boundaries and boundary setting is about the relationship between egos and, as you can see in most forums, bad or inadequate boundaries between UNHEALTHY egos is the accepted norm. 

I was taught to stop People Pleasing and/or Attacking and begin having useful boundaries which was a very difficult task for me since I was programmed to be a People Pleasing Doormat or an angry and violent Warrior - mostly a P.P.  though.  It's easy to bounce between the extremes or poles of one's conditioning so a PP can quickly become a Killer (road rage) if and when triggered. 

The boundary setting I was taught had to do with, first becoming as healthy of an ego as I could (with my Higher Power's help) and then finding the courage to say "no" when other unhealthy egos tried to USE or Abuse me and to say "yes" when I truly wanted something that I often shamefully denied myself - like new shoes or SEX!   Setting healthy boundaries is very difficult for most egos who were raised with bad or no boundaries and cannot relate with others (at forums) in healthy ways but good boundaries are the most effective way to keep any society from falling down into total chaos.  Fortunately, I met a few folks with healthy boundaries to keep me from becoming ether a jailbird (like my older brother) or dead by now! 

In a sense, setting boundaries becomes easy once you know what you want and have a right to it.  Telling others what you will or will not tolerate is the mark of a healthy ego so, something like the "Ignore List" at this forums, is a healthy boundary which prevents a damaged ego (won't mention her name) from offending others.  Healthy boundaries may seem isolating and/or selfish to other unhealthy egos but the boundary serves to keep both egos safe and allows life to move along a little more smoothly than bad or no boundaries where disturbed egos are free to offend you anyway they choose.   Stetting boundaries on neurotic egos (like at work) can be dangerous but it's necessary if peace and happiness is to happen at work, home or in a forum such as this.    I am sure you can see many instances of bad or no boundaries here where troubled egos CLASH over and over due to bad or no boundaries.  All wars and most crime is the dire consequences of bad or no boundaries but It's pretty hard to ENFORCE your boundaries so I was taught several methods to enforce good boundaries.   Usually it's about walking away from a fight rather than force some unhealthy ego to comply with the boundary.  Sometimes serious intimidation works but can backfire if the offender is either determined or mentally ill.  I've found that reasoning with a damaged ego never works so my method is to either leave, stand and fight or put them on my IGNORE LIST!   Once I had a job with my brother in law in Plumbing and he began verbally abusing me, like he did with all his other friends and his sons so I had a "friendly" private talk with him in his truck.   I RESPECTFULLY told him that I did not want to play this "mutual contempt" game with him, like all the others did, and that I was beginning to fear him so, we either had to treat each other with polite, respect or I would LEAVE - TODAY!   To my amazement, he politely agreed and never talked down to, nor disrespected me again but he went on disrespecting all the others and they disrespected him right back!    I had to set "respectful" boundaries with many "working" guys since being disrespectful seems to be a standard for them and also at EVERY forum I've ever been in.   It's easy to show contempt in forums where the offending ego is safe, anonymous and protected so I just use whatever boundaries I can in forums and I'm very glad there is an IGNORE list here!

Thank you. Its very resourceful.

[Loreena]

2 minutes ago, jimrich said:

Speaking of "techniques", my late wife and I discovered that sincerely staying with Rigorous Honesty was the most powerful and beneficial of all the relationship skills we were taught in therapy or from books.   We both were in or had done some therapy so we started off with very good values and skills.   Since both of us had Survived very dishonest families and previous marriages, we found that Rigorous, 100% HONESTY had a magical effect on our union and made everything work WONDERFULLY right from the start.   I recall sitting with her and tearfully admitting to some of my LIES at the beginning of our union and the lies and dishonesty quickly began to dissolve as I became more willing to be HONEST - with her, others and mostly with MYSELF.  After a  lifetime of compulsive LYING, to be safe, it was hard to get honest but honesty made EVERYTHING work much better.  Unhealthy egos CANNOT BE honest - it's their main DEFENSE system - which is why rigorous honesty is so rare in most cultures - especially in the US culture!    We did not expect others to be as honest as we were so we had to use boundary techniques with most other folks to "get along".   I hate lying and Liars but can live with it so long as good boundaries are in place. 

You're right about honesty. The ego is malformed without honesty. I have been looking into this for a while. It's a little tough in the beginning but all the effort in trying to be authentic is worth it. 

Took some time for this realization to sink in. 

[Ananta]

@jimrich You blocked me earlier, but have since unblocked me. Wonder why?

Especially, since you said in your post-

"I'm very glad there is an IGNORE list here!"

And 

"healthy boundary which prevents a damaged ego (won't mention her name) from offending others."

 

Strange decision to unblock someone who "in your opinion" has a damaged ego and is sooo "offensive" to you?

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Anna1

[Deep]

9 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

I was not talking about people, I was discussing about eastern spirituality and western psychology.

I don't think eastern spirituality teaches unhealthy ego. For example, Krishna tells Arjuna to kill his relatives for the betterment of society. That's a healthy ego. I think Indians didn't understand their spirituality properly in the past (and still don't). That's why they became passive. I've never read any spiritual teaching that says one has to be passive. It actually teaches us to have a healthy ego so it can dissolve easier. 

[Prabhaker]

23 minutes ago, Deep said:

I don't think eastern spirituality teaches unhealthy ego.

It teaches egolessness , which is very difficult to achieve for a person who wants to adjust in a modern society. 

[Deep]

@Prabhaker The ego taught in Indian culture is collective. For example, in Indian family structures most people will do things just to keep the peace in family. Then they become hypocritical. In western culture, the ego is individualistic. The person does what they feel is best for them. Are either of the ego types healthier than the other? 

[Seeker_of_truth]

On 7/11/2017 at 6:02 AM, Deep said:

I don't think eastern spirituality teaches unhealthy ego. For example, Krishna tells Arjuna to kill his relatives for the betterment of society. That's a healthy ego. I think Indians didn't understand their spirituality properly in the past (and still don't). That's why they became passive. I've never read any spiritual teaching that says one has to be passive. It actually teaches us to have a healthy ego so it can dissolve easier. 

Some of Arjuna's relatives were good people and uninvolved in the cause of the war. But they still chose to battle Arjuna just because it was their duty. Now is this a healthy ego ? If it was a healthy ego they, I think they would have joined to battle with arjuna for the betterment of the society. I think it was egolessness which made them to do just their duty and forget about personal preferences. Krishna asked arjuna to forget his personal preferences and asked him to do what was needed from him. Don't you think that might be a teaching to drop his ego ?

[Prabhaker]

8 hours ago, Deep said:

In western culture, the ego is individualistic. The person does what they feel is best for them.

Nobody is free from society, westerners are not doing everything as if they are living alone as individuals in this world. 

On 7/11/2017 at 6:02 AM, Deep said:

Krishna tells Arjuna to kill his relatives for the betterment of society.

Krishna is not asking Arjuna to fight against evil. If you really understand Krishna, he is saying that good and evil are both part of the same dream; violence and nonviolence are both part of the same dream. Krishna is not saying that violence is good. All he is saying is that both violence and nonviolence are dreams; one is a bad person's dream and the other is a good person's dream, but dreams they are, and the person who comes to know the entire dream as a dream attains to reality, to sat. This statement transcends morality. This statement is not immoral. This statement  transcends immorality too.

Krishna says since one cannot be killed, the idea of saving is out of the question. You can neither kill anyone nor save anyone from being killed. That which is, is, and that which is not, is not. So both the savior and the killer are simply dreaming opposite dreams.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Prabhaker
spelling mistake

[Deep]

15 hours ago, Seeker_of_truth said:

Don't you think that might be a teaching to drop his ego ?

No, Krishna was telling Arjuna what reality is. I don't think he was trying to enlighten him. @Prabhaker Krishna and Arjuna were strong, wealthy, courageous, intelligent, wise, compassionate, etc. I know Krishna was ego-less but his personality showed signs of a healthy ego. For a woman it would be different. A person with an unhealthy ego would run away from life out of fear. 

 

[Ananta]

18 minutes ago, jimrich said:

First of all, there is no ego or individual.   All there is, is raw Reality (or whatever you want to call what is.)  Leo says the True You is NO-THING and yet Everything!   So,  since there is no such things as an ego, healthy or otherwise, WHO CARES?  Why bother at all with this non-existent phantom or imaginary creature?   Go visit one of Leo's videos to see what Leo says we are and what we are not.   The True you - raw reality - simply are!

Hmm, interesting. You've written a "lot" on this thread about healthy ego's, unhealthy ego's, boundries to maintain your ego, honesty for the ego, but now your saying.... nope, no ego. 

[Ananta]

@jimrich  Give it a rest... you changed your mind and now have no ego. Perfect, works for me. Although, I think you're deluding yourself. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Anna1