Congruency - True Inner Self Vs Portrayed Outer Self

[brianman3]

I would like to start the topic of Congruency.  To summarize, it's what I'd call the difference between your true inner self and your portrayed outer self.  Or, put another way, who you feel like you are, vs who you show to the world.  What you want to do/say/be, vs, what you end up doing/saying/being.  It seems to me that the closer these two selves are aligned, the happier (and more at peace and more empowered and more etc.) a person becomes.

It's difficult to be yourself particularly when society exerts extreme pressure to be a certain way, defining what is right and good and normal.  If your true inner self aligns perfectly to what society expects of you, then you should have no struggle with congruency.  But that's not most of us, is it?  (Seriously, is it?)

This topic is endless.  First, how do you align the inner and outer self, bravely portraying your true self to a world you're sure will reject and judge you?  Second, how can you be your true self when you're particularly "weird" by societal standards (like, as in my case, I'm an adult baby)?  and Third, how does this "inner self" become aligned with the "outer-self" when, in reality, there is no self?  If there is no self, it seems we benefit from aligning with society, while if there is a self, we benefit from going against society.

Congruency is rarely discussed, but is definitely my major sticking point in my own self-development.

[Truth]

1 hour ago, brianman3 said:

 

This topic is endless.  First, how do you align the inner and outer self, bravely portraying your true self to a world you're sure will reject and judge you?  Second, how can you be your true self when you're particularly "weird" by societal standards (like, as in my case, I'm an adult baby)?  and Third, how does this "inner self" become aligned with the "outer-self" when, in reality, there is no self?  If there is no self, it seems we benefit from aligning with society, while if there is a self, we benefit from going against society.

Congruency is rarely discussed, but is definitely my major sticking point in my own self-development.

When your inner self is so powerful it automatically projects itself on the outer world, as you become more aware of the reactions your getting, you slowly learn what you are giving off, re-calibrating so your ego is satisfied.

And being your True self doesn't care if people label you as weird, because you are internally grounded, you see "being weird" for what it really is.

and third there is a distinction from inner world and outer world, Most people are caught up in thoughts and their ego, and realizing that there is no self/ego is the actual realization that you are reality. you are the inner world and outer world, and by you saying I'm here, and they are out there, is the ego, which is the thing we say doesn't exist, and when that distinction is cut off, there becomes no YOU struggling against reality, but you being aligned with reality.

because if there is a self, there's a NEED to struggle against reality (to be accepted, get what it wants, trying to control things which you have no control of), which is cause for a lot of your suffering in life.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Truth

[ayokolomo]

1 hour ago, Pinocchio said:

Maybe you don't need that second layer at all. The one that's always lagging behind.

Or maybe its vice versa and you dont need the inner layer and you only need the outer one.

[Aldo Marchand]

@brianman3

The true point here is that each person can have a different image of ourselves.

We live in falsehood where the ego is and empty identity that we present to others.

I discovered that the trulself is nothingness, so all authentic selfs touch each other at this point. 

[brianman3]

My head hurts.

Maybe it's true that the true self is nothingness, but on a practical level, we live in this world.  I do have drives and desires to live in a certain way, and they are faced with real consequences.  I'm not even talking about being labeled as weird, which I can handle, but flat out ostracized, arrested, attacked or killed.

Consider homosexuals from the less accepting 1960s.  They had internal drives to live a certain lifestyle.  These people were hated, physically assaulted, arrested, and killed.

So far what I'm getting from this conversation is that a: people that pretended to be straight and hid their homosexual desires were catering solely to their ego's social desires to be admired; b: nothing bad can really happen if they were truly gay and lived as such; and c: they're not really gay, as that was just an identity illusion - their real problem is that they were not aligned with reality.  Is reality the true self?  Society?  Or a third yet unnamed thing?

I respect all of these answers you've given, and I feel like there's truth in them, but I am as of yet completely confused.  Consider this post a plea for clarification.

[ayokolomo]

1 hour ago, Pinocchio said:

The inner layer is the original manifestation of the bodymind, you need it or you'd be dead. The outer layer is that tornado of constant self-reflection that's always trying to maintain and manipulate its relational status. It's completely superfluous.

Could be.  But it is also equally possible that the outer layer is the important layer and is the only one needed for survival. Maybe the inner one is the real hinderance to our evolution.

 And that relational status is the only game worth playing.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ayokolomo

[Truth]

14 minutes ago, brianman3 said:

 

So far what I'm getting from this conversation is that a: people that pretended to be straight and hid their homosexual desires were catering solely to their ego's social desires to be admired; b: nothing bad can really happen if they were truly gay and lived as such; and c: they're not really gay, as that was just an identity illusion - their real problem is that they were not aligned with reality.  Is reality the true self?  Society?  Or a third yet unnamed thing?

 

To answer A, yes, admired/accepted, to answer b, you assume you have control over how people will think of you/how they will react. The truth is you actually don't. So the difference between whether you will get killed or live a fulfilling life is really a product of your thoughts and not in the external world. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy or the law of attraction.

and c: We aren't talking about identifying with just gayness, we are talking about Identification of our whole entire ego, self, thoughts, assumptions that we make everyday. If someone is insecure with their gayness then that's an internal conflict, an egoic conflict and it doesn't actually exist in reality.

[ayokolomo]

@brianman3 the trick is to recognize that your identity is your choice.  How consciously you hold your identity is up to you  

[brianman3]

This is becoming clearer, but I still have questions.  (Get used to that from me )

@ayokolomo Internal desires... not part of identity?  Identity or not, we must address these issues, no?  I mean, we can choose to identify with them, but we can't choose our desires.  And we can choose to fulfill the desires or not, but we can't pretend that everyone is fine with it. I suppose we could choose to fear the repercussions or not, but we can't choose society's reaction thereto.  Please define the choice you speak of.

@Truth For B, we are not in control of what the world thinks of us, yet we are in control of getting killed or living a fulfilling life.  Are you saying that society's response of oppression/acceptance does not lead to murder/fulfillment, or that our actions do not dictate the response of oppression/acceptance?  Either way, what DOES lead to murder/fulfillment, or oppression/acceptance?  Can you be more detailed on this answer?

And for C, I'm not so sure.  I kind of get it, but it really feels like a conflict between my inner self and society, with my outer self torn.  I feel quite ok with who I am as an Adult Baby.  So, in order for your answer to be true, my fear of societal repercussions is actually a manifestation (law of attraction, again) of my own deep subconscious uneasiness with Adult-babyhood, which may be true.  Yet, there must be some level of societal pressure that everyone here seems to dismiss.  Does a nudist have complete freedom to live in this world nude?  And if he were to be arrested, is this his poor expectations/attitude fulfilling the law of attraction?

I'm not a homosexual in the 60s, and I'm not a modern nudist, but come on.  There has to be a line where society suppresses one's freedom to express oneself fully, yet posters here seem to insist it's in my imagination.

Either admit there's a line, and then we can discuss my position in relation to it, OR explain to me that there is absolutely no societal pressure to keep weird people from expressing themselves, and how I have been convinced that a nudist shopping at Best Buy will be punished for his individuality with jail time.

(I just realized I'm forcing a black/white answer.  If there is a line and also no line, please, explain that, too.)

[Truth]

This is just becoming a justification game, just because social conditioning keeps us from expressing ourselves doesn't mean we can't express ourselves. It also doesn't mean there aren't consequences to your actions, there are. What I am ACTUALLY talking about goes way deeper than just "is it okay to do this by society?" or "people in society would obviously do this to me." 

What I'm talking about is you living in fear and how you talk to protect your ego from whatever you think society will do or will not do to you.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Truth

[Phrae]

Okay, so how would he deal with that "inner conflict"? I agree that true self is grounded in it's wirdness but explaining that doesn't do anything. How do you become immune to the rejection of others and not fearful of hurting others.

Yeah something as simple as giving an opinion can hurt someone and I'm quite incomfortable with that.

What should be done here?

[Pallero]

There cannot be any congruency, because there the inner/outer duality is an illusion. You could say they are always congruent. Everything you perceive "outside" is created by what you are projecting from the "inside".

[ayokolomo]

@brianman3 If i sound disrepectful in anycway then I apologize, these are just my own thoughts.  

It appears to me that there is way to much mind in your questions.  Would I be right in assuming that you have alot of questions for other spiritual or self actualized topics?  No need to answer just something to ponder.

The mind dissects and analyzes and cuts apart things, but this is only one way of knowing things.  There have been alot of really good points made here but still I see you cut and dissect them up.  We talk of a drunken monkey mind but from your responses I see a monkey on 5 redbulls. 

Slow down, stop trying to find the answer and it will come to you.  The truth is a whisper but you are shouting so loud you cant hear it.  Your mind is working so hard that you are drowning out the truth.  But you need some sort of practical advice right?  

A basic guideline from the yoga sutras: if you meet people who are happy and joyful, cultivate friendliness and kindness, to those who are in pain or suffering cultivate compassion and support.  To those who are virtuous and benevolent be mindful of happiness and goodwill.  And to those who you see as wicked cultivate neutrality and acceptance.

Dont go to deep and try to dissect these, it is just common sense but be conscious and purposeful in cultivating these attutudes.  This will allow the answers you are seeking to bubble through yourself.

[brianman3]

On 2/18/2016 at 8:11 AM, ayokolomo said:

Would I be right in assuming that you have alot of questions for other spiritual or self actualized topics?

No, in fact.  In the past, perhaps.  This particular topic is a sticking point.

Self-expression is tough when the self is culturally unwelcome.  Can I ask about this without being labeled as a monkey-mind?  I'm not suggesting I'm not a monkey-mind, but it's no replacement for addressing the topic at hand.

Honestly, I am disappointed with this discussion.  Nobody is really addressing the conflict.  Suggesting I'm overthinking it is good advice, but it still does not address the conflict.  I don't understand the answers and ask for clarification, but instead of clarification I'm told I'm overthinking it.  That's what my parents and priests told me when I started asking questions about our religion, and had I heeded your advice, I'd still be a Christian in church every Sunday. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I think many of you have the wrong idea about me, like I'm some lost over-thinker wandering through this world blind to reality.  In reality, I'm actively self-actualizing, but see congruency as my major sticking point.  The advice I'm getting here is much too vague.  I know how to slow my mind, meditate, be present, follow instincts, etc.

What I don't get is when to accommodate society, and when to express yourself purely, which is better for us, and where lines are drawn.  At the very least, an explanation as to why this topic is undeserving of an answer would be appreciated.

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, brianman3 said:

I think many of you have the wrong idea about me, like I'm some lost over-thinker wandering through this world blind to reality.  In reality, I'm actively self-actualizing, but see congruency as my major sticking point.  The advice I'm getting here is much too vague.  I know how to slow my mind, meditate, be present, follow instincts, etc.

What I don't get is when to accommodate society, and when to express yourself purely, which is better for us, and where lines are drawn.  At the very least, an explanation as to why this topic is undeserving of an answer would be appreciated.

That's very personal I think, in my opinion the best thing is to do what you feel, not let others influence in what you do or not do.

In my case I am looking for enlightenment to be free, free of the opinions of others. 

Maybe you have to watch again Leo video about "How To Stop Caring What People Think Of You"

I hope this helps.

[DizIzMikey]

@brianman3 Watch each thought fade away, what does it fade away into? Nothingness

Another thought arises, and yet again it fades into nothingness

Let each thought fade away and give it no power.

For me, empirically, cannot be a thought for only a thought comes and it goes, cannot identify a me within for thoughts  arise and they go into the abyss.

Edited February 23, 2016 by DizIzMikey

[ayokolomo]

@brianman3

If have appeared flippant or disrespectful then I truly apologise.  

As far as I understand congruency is not based on principles or rules, it naturaly blossoms when the internal qualities have reached their optimum levels.  These then flow through you and flower on the outside.  With flowers you dont work to get the flower you simply set the right conditions then a flower blooms.

Essentialy work within yourself and the right qualities that you wish to expressed within the right time frame will be expressed. 

However, the exercise that I suggested in my last post, the yoga sutra quote, is simply a way to develop these internal qualities.  It brings mindfulness to your interaction with each indivudual and situation.  This is so that you can develop your own understanding, your own answer.  

When you are given a general guideline that you are pushed to remember then your mind is forced to the present situation and you become mindful of the now.  

They appear to be common sense approaches but they hold a deeper meaning, just try it for a few weeks and you will be surprised at the result. Treat it as a science project, test then get the data, recalibrate, then test again.

[brianman3]

OK.  I feel like we're getting somewhere now.  Perhaps it was my fault for not defining my problems/goals well enough.  These later answers seem to have honed in a little better to what I am asking, and I am going to try to zoom in a little more right now.

"How to stop caring what others think of you" is a great video, and I've watched in at least three times.  Yet, I am not generally worried about what others think of me.  This topic relates more to the real consequences beyond thoughts.  People can think whatever they want, and they can say whatever they want, and I'll live my life empowered and unaffected.

You (collectively) state "you shouldn't care if people think poorly of you", as if that's the worst that can happen.

If all I feared was poor opinions, I would have no struggle, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.  When you state that we should be free of the negative opinions of others, is this an umbrella statement to include physical threats, job loss, break-ups, lawsuits, and legal charges as well?  And, if not, what should we care about (in consideration to our actions), and what should we not?

[Guest]

@brianman3 Hi,

I don't think anybody can help you if you don't tell us what your problem is specifically.

What is it you feel you need to express that you imagine is going to be so badly received?

True self and false self: A false self is where you identify with an issue so much that it becomes all consuming, runs your life, runs your thoughts feelings behaviours.  "Nothingness" isn't a self, it's an organising aspect that allows all your different aspects of your personality to harmonise and function cohesively as a whole.

If you want to get a quick introduction to your true Self and what it feels like without having to do years of meditating then try "Big Mind" process. 

http://bigmind.org/

Do the process and talk to the aspect of yourself that wants to express itself.  It will have a healthy side and an unhealthy side.  You might only be aware at this point of it's unhealthy side, so it's probably a good idea that you are keeping it under wraps and are afraid to express it.

If you do find that your expression should be socially accepted then finding like minded people and pushing for social acceptance is a healthy way to raise awareness of your right to express this part of you.

Homosexuality has travelled a long road. In 1973 homosexualty was still classified as a mental illness in the Diagnositc and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders http://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm.