Mondsee

If There Is No Free Will, How Can I Decide To Surrender To The Idea That There Is No Free Will?

Started by Mondsee,

29 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm trapped in that paradox.

Is it already given who will be able to fully recognize that there is no free will?

That question can actually be generalized to everything:

Is there some sort of written destiny for everyone including who will be able to really recognize it and who won't?

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

@Nahm I'm sorry I don't understand your answer.

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

@Mondsee haha That's like a paradox. 

  1. Only ONE path is true. Rest is noise. 
  2. God is beauty, rest is Ugly 

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Posted

My answer would be there is no personal you, surrender will either happen or it won't. You have as much free will as a character in a dream does 

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Posted

2 minutes ago, Loreena said:

@Mondsee haha That's like a paradox. 

Yeah, that's what I said.

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Mondsee I'm saying that is not a paradox because you have free will. 

Oh you think I do? Because every time I meditate I prove to myself I do not.

4 minutes ago, bobbyward said:

My answer would be there is no personal you, surrender will either happen or it won't. You have as much free will as a character in a dream does 

So you do think that our destiny is given, and maybe I will discover Truth, but maybe I won't and there's simply absolutely nothing I can do?

Edited by Mondsee
Adding question mark

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

@Nahm Could you explain how we have free will ?

  1. Only ONE path is true. Rest is noise. 
  2. God is beauty, rest is Ugly 

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Posted

@Mondsee I've looked into this. A lot. I know this is not a popular understanding, but I used to call bullshit on ghost / bad spirit stories. Then I experienced this for myself, and now I have an understanding of how important my intentions, beliefs, words, etc are. Now I am back to saying there is no such thing as ghosts, because, no thanks. Free will is the same. 

MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Posted

@Nahm Thats a weak argument imo.

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

I'm saying that there is no you to have free will in the first place, so no there is absolutely nothing you can do to discover truth. A character in a dream doesn't decide to cross the road, because the character doesn't really exist. Crossing the road either happens or it doesn't 

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Posted

@Nahm More like free choice. I can't change something even if I want to.  See. That's how we don't have free will.  A lot that happens in the world is not in our control. 

We are given choices and options and we choose out of those.  

So how free will ?

  1. Only ONE path is true. Rest is noise. 
  2. God is beauty, rest is Ugly 

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Posted

1 minute ago, bobbyward said:

I'm saying that there is no you to have free will in the first place, so no there is absolutely nothing you can do to discover truth. A character in a dream doesn't decide to cross the road, because the character doesn't really exist. Crossing the road either happens or it doesn't 

Ok, this seems to make more sense, but then it is kind of sad, isn't it? Maybe your character is lucky, but maybe it simply is not...

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

5 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

Oh you think I do? Because every time I meditate I prove to myself I do not.

So you do think that our destiny is given, and maybe I will discover Truth, but maybe I won't and there's simply absolutely nothing I can do?

 I'd be happy to be wrong. Can you elaborate on how you don't have free will, but "you" "proved" to Your "self" that "you" do not? 

What did the "proving"? What self was convinced by the "proving"? It seems to me you are implementing your free will in a literal sense while explaining that you do not have it. 

 

If and when you experience something paranormal, you might find what I said to be more worthwhile. Your 1/2 the experience of something like that. I apologize if I was arguing. 

If you know you don't have free will, what's with being on a personal development site? For you, what's the point of doing anything you do? If you don't have free will, then only one path of causation is possible, so you should stop doing anything and start chillin. Right? Or, you can't help but develop yourself, because there is no free will, because their is no self... but that doesn't add up either. Perhaps there is a level where we have and a level where we have not, free will. Simlilar to the laws of the different known scales of 'matter' - cellular, atomic, quantum, systems, etc.

MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Posted

@Nahm Sit down to meditate and use your free will to control your thoughts, after that consider if you still believe to have free will.

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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Posted

I had some insights on stuff related to this through taking 5meo dmt. There's this infinite energy source, it's the only thing that exists, everything comes from and is made out of it. The character has no free will but the infinite energy source can do anything. Also it can seem like the character is suffering but there is no real suffering, because there is only one thing that exists. 

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Posted

Yes I am saying that I am as real as a character in a dream 

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Go To Topic Listing Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God