Has Anyone Read 'waking Up - Spirituality Without Religion'?

[Telepresent]

14 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Actually, he does say in his book that he thinks permanent abiding in non-dual consciousness is a possibility. He only states that he is not yet progressed to be like that all the time, but he definitely doesn't say it is impossible. 

Fair do's.  Good man!  That's what happens when you declare "facts" you remember from a couple of years ago!  Thanks for the correction

[ChimpBrain]

@Shanmugam check out Sam's podcast, also called Waking Up. It's great.

[Shanmugam]

@ChimpBrain  Yeah I will. thanks.. I checked out his youtube channel and actually downloaded a few videos using keepvid.com. But I still have to download the podcasts

[khalifa]

This might interest you, ironically deepak sounds nuts here even though what he's trying to communicate can't really be communicated in language since it's just beyond it, absolute truth is beyond the limitations of logic

 

[Shanmugam]

@khalifa  Actually,  I watched the full video just today.. The full video is called 'Future of God' and it runs for two hours.. It was a very interesting debate:

 

[Shanmugam]

One issue that has been raised in that debate is the mistake of using concepts of quantum mechanics such as observer effect to prove non-local consciousness.. It looks like observer effect on quantum level can be caused by a lot of things and it is not really an evidence for non-local consciousness.. Even OBE's and NDE'S are not evidences for non-local consciousness since they can be very well explained by the brain functions.

 

[Telepresent]

3 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

It looks like observer effect on quantum level can be caused by a lot of things and it is not really an evidence for non-local consciousness.. Even OBE's and NDE'S are not evidences for non-local consciousness since they can be very well explained by the brain functions.

I hit a basic issue when it came to quantum physics, which is that it led me to believe I knew what was going on!  I built a model around several different strands of quantom, string, and multi-dimensionality thinking (as could be understood and filtered through my brain, which I am sure squished a lot of it to mush)... and I suddenly thought I knew everything that was going on.  Oh clever clever me!

So just watch out for that.  Maybe you're smarter so don't need to worry about it, but beware

[Leo Gura]

On 7/1/2017 at 1:30 PM, Socrates said:

@Leo Gura How could you "convince" a guy like Sam Harris to at least give the non-rational side a chance. I am asking this question because when i discuss spirituality people often get argumentative and ask for logical and rational reason to meditate etc.

30mg of 5-meo up the nose.

That's is the perfect antidote for all atheists and rationalists. That's as tangible and scientific as spirituality gets. Which is why I like it. Because anyone who rejects it, does so purely out of closemindedness. Any serious skeptic should be ready to take the 5-meo challenge.

This deeper issue here is that Sam treats spirituality like degrees of tranquility of the mind. That is the case at the newbie stages. At the higher stages, it's not just deeper peace. It's deities, paranormal phenomena, God, Absolute Infinity, and realizing that all of reality is a dream. It's a whole order of magnitude difference.

Tranquility of mind and no-self is easy for an atheist to accept. God, however, is not. It's beyond your wildest imagination.

[Shanmugam]

@Leo Gura  Sam himself supports the use of Psychedelics to get a glimpse of reality. The book starts with his experience of taking ecstasy.. The last chapter is dedicated to psychedelics where he talks about his good and bad trips.. He talks about LSD, mushroom, Ecstasy, MMDA and DMT.. He is not really skeptical about non-dual awareness or transcendence of a separate self.. He only denies the beliefs that have no solid evidence, like believing in a personal, creator God..

Edited July 3, 2017 by Shanmugam

[Leo Gura]

@Shanmugam He didn't go deep enough with them.

Of course he's gonna have bad trips when he insists on being so rational. 5-meo would probably give him a heart attack because it would mean his whole career is based on bullshit. And of course his ego is not gonna like facing that truth.

A dogmatic mind is a hell of thing to change. Especially when it thinks it's above dogma.

[art]

@Leo Gura Have you thought about contacting him personally, delivering the challenge? 

[Shanmugam]

A part from his book where he talks about his meditations:

"Nevertheless, I spent several years deeply preoccupied with reaching the
goal of cessation, and at least one year of that time was spent on silent retreat.
Although I had many interesting experiences, none seemed to fit the specific
requirements of this path. There were periods during which all thought
subsided, and any sense of having a body disappeared. What remained was a
blissful expanse of conscious peace that had no reference point in any of the
usual sensory channels. Many scientists and philosophers believe that
consciousness is always tied to one of the five senses—and that the idea of a
“pure consciousness” apart from seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and
touching is a category error and a spiritual fantasy. I am confident that they are
mistaken"

[TeamBills]

On 30/06/2017 at 10:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

Is he Ben Stiller's twin? I mean it's kind of scary how much they look alike.

[Shanmugam]

@TeamBills

 actually, the image on that picture is Ben Stiller, not Sam Harris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stiller#/media/File:Ben-Stiller-(MS1411200222).jpg

Whoever edited that picture has made a mistake by adding Ben Stiller's Image there 

But it is true that Ben Stiller and Sam Harris look alike

[Loreena]

9 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

@TeamBills

 actually, the image on that picture is Ben Stiller, not Sam Harris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stiller#/media/File:Ben-Stiller-(MS1411200222).jpg

Whoever edited that picture has made a mistake by adding Ben Stiller's Image there 

But it is true that Ben Stiller and Sam Harris look alike

Ben Stiller looks stunningly handsome !!

[Shanmugam]

@Loreena  When I first saw Sam Harris in Youtube, he looked familiar.. I almost believed that reincarnation exists, wondering if Sam Harris was my uncle in my previous life ... I had watched movies of Ben stiller many years back, so  I couldn't suddenly realize the source of the familiarity..

[electroBeam]

 

On 7/4/2017 at 6:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

It's deities, paranormal phenomena, God, Absolute Infinity, and realizing that all of reality is a dream. It's a whole order of magnitude difference.

Is believing in deities and paranormal activity, which there is very little evidence of, really making your life any better? Is believing reality is a dream really making you more happy? 

Life can be described by logic very very well. It does seem to follow logic rules. If you drop a pen now, there is a 99% chance it will fall. Its not just some 'illusion'. Its a fact that there is a 99% chance it will fall. 

How is denying that fact, helping anyone?

[Flow With Life]

I have read the book, in fact it was THE first book I read that got me into meditation, Buddhism, spirituality, psychedelics, etc. It is the perfect gateway into spirituality for someone who is skeptical. I was an ex-Christian anti-theist before I read the book. Philosophical curiosity was my main motivation for reading it, and I understood Sam Harris to be very anti-religion. Ironically, it was BECAUSE I knew that he was anti-religion, that his statements about no-self, praise of Buddhism, and spirituality/meditation had more effect on me.

 

I've outgrown the book now, and I think that Sam is still stuck in his rationalist and materialistic paradigm, not to mention that his career is based off of that. But I thank him for introducing me to spirituality, it has changed my life.

[Leo Gura]

22 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Is believing in deities and paranormal activity, which there is very little evidence of, really making your life any better? Is believing reality is a dream really making you more happy? 

Life can be described by logic very very well. It does seem to follow logic rules. If you drop a pen now, there is a 99% chance it will fall. Its not just some 'illusion'. Its a fact that there is a 99% chance it will fall. 

How is denying that fact, helping anyone?

You don't need to believe in it. You need to experience it.

Yes, it helps makes many lives better. You are just out the loop.

The Egyptians built an entire civilization upon it, and ran it successfully for over 2000 years. Which is more than we can say for ourselves.

No one is questioning if the pen will fall. The question, rather, is what is a pen? What is life? What is reality? I dare you to try to use logic to answer that. Logic is for small minds. Big minds do not think. And they certainly do not argue.

[Loreena]

Just now, Outer said:

- believing in deities and paranormal activity

- believing reality is a dream

Well I do believe it works and it's fascinating to say the least. There are mysteries of life that are way beyond human comprehension. What do you think ?