Psychedelics

[David1]

53 minutes ago, Henri said:

@David1 Well mate, your comment says you are green by the spiral dynamics.

You believe everybody is having his own truth? It`s all just a subjective party?

If you want to call me green...that's fine by me. I believe everybody is having their own experience yes. Truth? Life, and in my opinion history too, has taught me to be very warry if somebody tells me something is 100% true. Usually, very bad things come from that. You can never be 100% sure of anything. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by David1

[David1]

33 minutes ago, MartineF said:

and I hope that no labile person will read this topic, eventually understand it as a recommendation and try it out in order to become enlightened

.. or what ever the goal may be...

I'm not giving any recommendations. And even if i did...everybody is responsible for their own actions. I hope we've all taken at least that advice from Leo by now.

[charlie2dogs]

27 minutes ago, David1 said:

If i kick you in the groin...i doubt that you want to debate if its real or not. You'll know that it's real. Whether you believe it is existing as a hologram or warped perception or whatever. It all doesn't matter. It's a real experience for you at that time.

i think you missed the whole point but its ok

[David1]

27 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

i think you missed the whole point but its ok

How did i miss the point?

1 hour ago, charlie2dogs said:

just because you have an experience doesnt make it real, just because you believe in something doesnt make it true, doesnt mean that it is reality, what kind of experience would be considered real? what is truth and where can truth be found, what is reality and where can reality be found?  if the experience, truth or so called reality is from the experience of the identity (human being) it is never true, real or reality, it is only programing, belief, or a warped perception of the events that the identity thinks is real, true and reality.  Real, truth,  and reality cannot be experienced as as the identity first of all because it is existing as a hologram a fictitious identity, it is totally programed with every nonsense in this physical world, all of the programing is turned into a false belief system, all of this creates a warped perception of everything the identity thinks is real, true and reality.

'Just because you have an experience doesn't make it real?'                                     

Well it makes it real for me no? Ofcourse my rollercoaster experience is not real for you, for obvious reasons.

'just because you believe in something doesnt make it true, doesnt mean that it is reality'

ofcourse not...a billion people believing in God doesn't make it true. Although you can argue about that... Man invents vengefull God, immediatly loses all controle over him, and now that God is angry and comes back to wreck havoc on us. Is that God then real or not? The concequences of thinking him up certainly are.

what kind of experience would be considered real?

Your experiences. If  in your dreams a monster is chasing you. That is a real experience for you at that moment. You can look in retrospect on it and say...well that was just a dream. But at that time...in your dream it was real.

what is truth and where can truth be found, what is reality and where can reality be found?  if the experience, truth or so called reality is from the experience of the identity (human being) it is never true, real or reality, it is only programing, belief, or a warped perception of the events that the identity thinks is real, true and reality.  Real, truth,  and reality cannot be experienced as as the identity first of all because it is existing as a hologram a fictitious identity, it is totally programed with every nonsense in this physical world, all of the programing is turned into a false belief system, all of this creates a warped perception of everything the identity thinks is real, true and reality.

Whaat? you really lost me here buddy.Look if you get kicked in the groin lol. That will be real for you. There is no need to bring in false belief systems or warped perceptions. It's a direct accute experience in the now. and you'll notice a distinct difference from all the 'story, fake experiences' they try to sell you, like getting fired or losing money, or owning a nice car.

[charlie2dogs]

25 minutes ago, David1 said:

How did i miss the point?

'Just because you have an experience doesn't make it real?'                                     

Well it makes it real for me no? Ofcourse my rollercoaster experience is not real for you, for obvious reasons.

'just because you believe in something doesnt make it true, doesnt mean that it is reality'

ofcourse not...a billion people believing in God doesn't make it true. Although you can argue about that... Man invents vengefull God, immediatly loses all controle over him, and now that God is angry and comes back to wreck havoc on us. Is that God then real or not? The concequences of thinking him up certainly are.

what kind of experience would be considered real?

Your experiences. If  in your dreams a monster is chasing you. That is a real experience for you at that moment. You can look in retrospect on it and say...well that was just a dream. But at that time...in your dream it was real.

what is truth and where can truth be found, what is reality and where can reality be found?  if the experience, truth or so called reality is from the experience of the identity (human being) it is never true, real or reality, it is only programing, belief, or a warped perception of the events that the identity thinks is real, true and reality.  Real, truth,  and reality cannot be experienced as as the identity first of all because it is existing as a hologram a fictitious identity, it is totally programed with every nonsense in this physical world, all of the programing is turned into a false belief system, all of this creates a warped perception of everything the identity thinks is real, true and reality.

Whaat? you really lost me here buddy.Look if you get kicked in the groin lol. That will be real for you. There is no need to bring in false belief systems or warped perceptions. It's a direct accute experience in the now. and you'll notice a distinct difference from all the 'story, fake experiences' they try to sell you, like getting fired or losing money, or owning a nice car.

yes if the identity get kicked in the groin, the identity will think its real, false belief systems, programing and warped perceptions are what practically all of the people are functioning from on this planet today.  you are speaking to me as the identity, i am speaking to you about functioning as a being of consciousness rather than an identity,  you are giving me examples that the identity creates and experiences, im talking to you about the real part of you that is not the physical body, these experiences of getting fired, losing money, owning a car, getting kicked in the balls does not happen to the being of consciousness, it only happens to the identity.  Based on your last reply i know this sounds confusing to you, most of the people on this planet think that they are the identity (body) but that is not the reality, we are much much more, than a physical body, and that other is what many are seeking to regain and most of them dont even know what it is that they are seeking but they are looking, searching, for answers, that may lead them one day to a much bigger awakening of their true state of being apart from the fictitious identity and this physical. 

[The Second Coming]

@charlie2dogs The being is untouched by existence.  Its the bodymind that everything happen to.  The being is not of this world, it take no sides, has no opinion, no past, no future, no baggage and no hopes, therefore is not seeking or finding. Only the bodymind can have experiences, the being doesnt care about existence, it is complete, whole, perfect so doesnt need anything.  The way to experience the being for me is to be wrong, let go, and realise that what I was clinging to was just an illusion.  So if my position that seemed so real was just an illusion then all phenomena is really an illusion.  It just comes, tortures us for a while and then goes when we realise the futility of keeping hold of it.  Yet it is the worst thing to try to let go of because we think we going to literally end if we give up the position, we worked so hard to accumulate it, even all our enlightenment experiences amounted to it so it simply cannot be wronged - after all it IS the truth... then we realise it wasnt the truth after all... with a sigh of relief, a warm glow and a knowing smile.. then it start all over again

[charlie2dogs]

3 minutes ago, The Second Coming said:

@charlie2dogs The being is untouched by existence.  Its the bodymind that everything happen to.  The being is not of this world, it take no sides, has no opinion, no past, no future, no baggage and no hopes, therefore is not seeking or finding. Only the bodymind can have experiences, the being doesnt care about existence, it is complete, whole, perfect so doesnt need anything.  The way to experience the being for me is to be wrong, let go, and realise that what I was clinging to was just an illusion.  So if my position that seemed so real was just an illusion then all phenomena is really an illusion.  It just comes, tortures us for a while and then goes when we realise the futility of keeping hold of it.  Yet it is the worst thing to try to let go of because we think we going to literally end if we give up the position, we worked so hard to accumulate it, even all our enlightenment experiences amounted to it so it simply cannot be wronged - after all it IS the truth... then we realise it wasnt the truth after all... with a sigh of relief, a warm glow and a knowing smile.. then it start all over again

and you had to experience it to understand it didnt you

[The Second Coming]

19 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

and you had to experience it to understand it didnt you

Yes.  The only way to understand it is to "die".  It's all about self-ing, a process of hiding in existence and awakening out of it.  

[charlie2dogs]

2 minutes ago, The Second Coming said:

Yes.  The only way to understand it is to "die".  It's all about self-ing, a process of hiding in existence and awakening out of it.  

i agree

[The Second Coming]

4 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

i agree

It's all about defeat.  If you can allow defeat then you have won.  If you dont allow defeat you create the ego.  The ego is useless because all it does is defend itself.   And all it has to defend itself is concepts.  The other MUST be wrong, and the ego will summon everything it has, every label, ever moral, every doctrinal position and internalise it and then thats all it sees, its own damn reflection and nobody can get through.  Contact is lost and it keeps building and buliding.  The more developed it gets the harder it gets to dissolve it.  

[charlie2dogs]

3 minutes ago, The Second Coming said:

It's all about defeat.  If you can allow defeat then you have won.  If you dont allow defeat you create the ego.  The ego is useless because all it does is defend itself.   And all it has to defend itself is concepts.  The other MUST be wrong, and the ego will summon everything it has, every label, ever moral, every doctrinal position and internalise it and then thats all it sees, its own damn reflection and nobody can get through.  Contact is lost and it keeps building and buliding.  The more developed it gets the harder it gets to dissolve it.  

i had that experience hahahaha

[The Second Coming]

@charlie2dogs A knowing laugh from you charlie  LOL.  I've been reported again, shit! LOL

Edited April 19, 2016 by The Second Coming

[charlie2dogs]

and after all the years of searching through all the muck, not even knowing what it was we were seeking, to finally find the real part of ourself and experience it makes it all worthwhile .

[The Second Coming]

1 minute ago, charlie2dogs said:

and after all the years of searching through all the muck, not even knowing what it was we were seeking, to finally find the real part of ourself and experience it makes it all worthwhile .

What you seek has been there all along.  "Knock and the door shall be opened, seek and ye shall find" !!

[The Second Coming]

3 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

and after all the years of searching through all the muck, not even knowing what it was we were seeking, to finally find the real part of ourself and experience it makes it all worthwhile .

And the gratitude... even for all the "idiots" who seemed to be against you, they were there to enlighten you all along

[charlie2dogs]

1 minute ago, The Second Coming said:

And the gratitude... even for all the "idiots" who seemed to be against you, they were there to enlighten you all along

that is true, all of it pushed us onward and i think it was mainly for me anyway a huge desire i had within to know more about myself that kept me going through it all

[charlie2dogs]

1 minute ago, charlie2dogs said:

that is true, all of it pushed us onward and i think it was mainly for me anyway a huge desire i had within to know more about myself that kept me going through it all

i got to go for a while , its good meeting you and enjoyed the chat, take care

[The Second Coming]

14 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

i got to go for a while , its good meeting you and enjoyed the chat, take care

Yes.  You too

[Philip]

@A Sahota I think psychedelics are a good way to shake things up when you're feeling lost, feeling stuck or when you're in a comfort zone for too long. I don't suggest consuming them too often, but maybe once every 6 months or so.

But personally, it helped me in making big life choices. It also helped me becoming aware of negative aspects of myself I wasn't focusing on.

 

[Pav]

Ah psychedelics... There's a lot I could say about them, but I'll try to keep this brief.

Personally my motivation for consuming hallucinogens has been largely out of pure interest. I'm very fascinated by the brain, conciousness and psychology. I find that psychedelics can really mess with many of your brains processing, which can really provide a lot of insight into how it all works. I particularly enjoy trying link back what I've experienced with my knowledge of neuroscience. One example would be the sheer amount of processing which goes into your visual perception of faces. There is a region of the brain in the visual cortex which is responsible for processing peoples faces. I have noticed while on a psychedelic that peoples faces can become greatly distorted, to the point where they no longer look human. I interpreted this as the drug stopping or altering the processing of faces, leaving more raw sensory input, the data is no longer being as processed to make them look more 'human'. They look much more ape-like. My own hands have looked more like monkey's paws than human hands.

One thing that psychedelics can do is induce a peak experience (including the mystical experience). Often when I come down from mushrooms, everything about the world will feel perfect just the way it is. I'll feel an intense love for everything and everyone. I'll look at a rock on the ground and feel that that rock is perfect as it is. Nothing could possibly harm me when in such a state, no neurosis at all, things which I was previously trouble with will now seem like complete non-issues. I will feel like I could have died right then and it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.

I haven't done a psychedelic for a while now, but I feel that I'm getting closer to having that state while sober (although not nearly as intensely). 

@Henri Your initial comments to DreamSpirit was a little judgemental. I'm detecting a bit of ego coming through your comments. A subtle type of 'my spirituality is superior to yours'. Maybe there's something here which you ought to examine.

If you've never done a psychedelic you cannot possibly know what the experience is like. Many of the same things reported in the enlightenment experience are also reported in the hallucinogenic experience; feelings of oneness, egolessness, unconditional love, ect. Personally, I believe it to be preferable to accept that you do not know rather than labelling other peoples experiences as not 'spiritual'. 

Another thing to be mindful of is that you, along with everybody else, will have a bias when determining which teachers are genuine or what beliefs to subscribe to. Often you will only see what you want to see and disregard the rest. Your brain is very good at shaping your own reality. One of the good things about psychedelics is that by providing an experience of such an altered perception of reality they can make a person much more open to new ideas and experiences, and much more critical of their existing views.

As David1 said, stay away from anyone who claims to know absolute truth.