Have Any Of You Guys And Gals Experienced This Epiphany?

[ajasatya]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I can release the notion that I am a human being. Try it yourself. This is not intellectual. It's clear to me anyway. I get it very profoundly. And I'm looking for some feedback over this epiphany I've had.

i've experienced it and i am able to experience it right now. i know what you're talking about. you've experienced pure awareness, the spirit, the immaterial and fundamental emptiness. and i gave you the feedback you asked for. i said that this is just one facet of the paradox.

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, ajasatya said:

i've experienced it and i am able to experience it right now. i know what you're talking about. you've experienced pure awareness, the spirit, the immaterial and fundamental emptiness. and i gave you the feedback you asked for. i said that this is just one facet of the paradox.

But why cling to this paradox?  The paradox is concept.  Couldn't you release that concept? 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

But why cling to the paradox?  The paradox is concept.  Couldn't you release that concept?

the paradox is just a mental object, i agree. but it appears in the mind when we move on from the experience seeking phase and start living life normally. some practitioners experience anxiety due to attachment to mystical experiences because they lack the necessary wisdom to integrate the spiritual experiences into their daily lives.

i am pretty sure that what i mean by "embrace the paradox" is what you mean by "release the paradox". the internal movement of acceptance is similar (not to say equivalent) to letting go, which is something i had never noticed before. thank you

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, ajasatya said:

the paradox is just a mental object, i agree. but it appears in the mind when we move on from the experience seeking phase and start living life normally. some practitioners experience anxiety due to attachment to mystical experiences because they lack the necessary wisdom to integrate the spiritual experiences into their daily lives.

i am pretty sure that what i mean by "embrace the paradox" is what you mean by "release the paradox". the internal movement of acceptance is similar (not to say equivalent) to letting go, which is something i had never noticed before. thank you

Ordinary life is not the problem, it's our interpretations of it (concept), and then we wanna build on reality with concept, so we distort the mirror so to speak, which yields a distorted view.  And then we want to cling to this distorted view, which too is concept which can be released.  I'm not denying that what appears in my skandhas is real.  But concepts about what's real is the problem.  We can release those, or cling to them but while doing so be aware of what they are.  Concepts often have practical utility.  But they just can't capture me.  That inverts the horse and cart.  Concepts have no standing outside of my clinging to them or releasing them.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

9 minutes ago, Outer said:

Ok, what's the practical utility of concepts, whats the definition? Dunno, you gotta eat, sleep etc, so you gotta work. If works to be done you probably need some concepts in it, it doesnt really mean anything to me. Can we have some examples of concepts?

There is no definition needed.  Science is one example of the practical use of concepts.  Concepts are fine, they just aren't me.  I cling to them or release them, that's my relationship to concepts.  And concepts don't underlie me in any way.  That's just a concept too, and I can release that.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Outer said:

Well if the concepts are useful for whatever purpose, even if it means releasing concepts, that's cool to me. Do you equal concepts to be the same as stories? A story is the same as concepts to me. They might be a bit different, otherwise two different words wouldn't be used. (unless one forgets language and every word is the same)

Yeah.  I don't like the word stories because it is too negatively connotated.  Concepts are fine, they just don't capture me.  That's it.  And it's this inversion that I just discovered.  I don't have a fear, I just have a sensation in the skandhas.  See the distinction?  Concept does not define reality.  Reality just is independent of concept.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

19 minutes ago, Nichols Harvey said:

As far as I'm concerned you're way off the mark.

Been there. Done that.  It's just another thought 

I've actually expanded my view a little bit.  The way I said it initially was too glossy.  It's not that I have no needs.  There may be a thirst in my shandhas.  But I can chose to attach to the concept "I am thirsty" or release the same, could I not?  See the difference?  Reality is one thing, concept is something else.  I can release any concept.

There may be a sensation in my breast.  But it's another matter altogether to attach to the concept "I have a fear".

You may experience reality, but it's another matter to attach to the concept "I exist".  You can release this concept.

So what I think I've discovered is a bifurcation between concept and reality (in the sense of reality as what is, not a theory of reality, which is concept).  This is the counter-intuitive move it seems.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Nichols Harvey said:

@Joseph Maynor

Ok. But what are you hoping to achieve?

A state where you're continually letting go of attachments?

That sounds like a lot of work to me to be doing that consciously all the time.

I guess it's a case of being identified most of the time but not being so overwhelmed with it. And that little bit of distance gives us more room for more deeper and candid emotional expression and less contracting and the subsequent distortions that come with contracting 

A continual stream of making better and better decisions. 

You're probably better at that than I am already lol. 

No more suffering and stunting of growth caused by attachment to concepts in the sense that they define me in any way.  So, for example, stop saying you have needs and fears.  Stop attaching to those concepts.  That will not change whatever comes up in your skandhas, even sharp pains.  But you don't have to conceptualize it as anything.  Just experience the feeling without also accepting a concept that says "I have a need".  This is matrix-speak.   By doing this you've stopped looking and started thinking.  You've added a little piece of fantasy to raw reality: a little nugget of idealism.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Nichols Harvey said:

Well the problem is were always going to be defining. That's what we do. It's actually helpful to a certain extent as you already know  

Yes.  Less suffering. But not no suffering.  That would not be right. Life would not be worth living without suffering because without that we also get rid of any happiness too. 

I'm happy with less suffering and more ability to bounce back quicker after every knock.

For me that brings the ego under a semblance of control rather than trying to dissolve it.  Eventually it's going to be almost non existent

 

 

But we can become more aware of what we're doing regarding this.  I'm not saying we stop conceptualizing by any means.  I'm a philosopher.  I love concepts.  I just don't use concepts as a prism to view reality.  I take a more direct view, a non-conceptual view of reality.  But concepts have their place.  I can choose to cling or release them more intelligently with increased awareness.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Nichols Harvey said:

Totally agree with all of your last comment. 

I'm familiar with this non conceptual view of reality. But I've never quite been able to see how it's sustainable for more than a few seconds.

What I've worked out that the best we can do with non conceptual awareness is use it in combination with concepts  to continually update our worldview.  Like I mentioned on your meditation thread.

Im happy being a person who is able to stop thinking long enough not to keep repeating the past. For me that is enough non conceptual mind to keep me out of mischief  (although it's not entirely fool proof  lol)

 

It's not a view of reality.  That would be concept.  I'm not talking about an idea, theory, or perspective of or on reality.  It's an awareness of what's in the skandhas in a moment.  Pure awareness of what is in a moment.  Maybe looking is a good analogy.  When I say I need or I fear I'm adding a little nugget of idealism into the purity of reality.  I've stepped into the matrix a tad.  And it was self-induced because I conflated reality with concept.  I clung to that concept rather than releasing it.  See, concepts are not inherently bad, just when I use them to define what I am or what reality is.  It's like getting things ass-backwards.  I precede any concept, and so does reality.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

Using words and concepts to challenge other's words and concepts while denying attachment to them.... a classic blind spot in one's awareness.

Edited June 26, 2017 by SOUL

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor First, you absolutely can only think positively, but it takes a lot of practices for a considerable amount of time to get to the place where it remains consistent (at least ime). Side note -"it" doesn't remain consistent though, your choices in observation / perception do. So you are, not it is. You could faulter at any time, but when you do, you'll feel whatever momentum you've acquired. There must be clarity in the usefulness and non-usefulness of thinking, that seems to come from consistent meditation & eating correctly, and letting go of your individual self. I don't think thoughts. I pick how I feel. I get ideas and thoughts from somewhere, but not from me. "My thoughts" are not my thoughts really. I call them mine for practical reasons. 

You must let Joseph go. You have to spend all of your time giving. You have to put everyone including strangers first. You have to do this as consistently as possible everyday, wether you feel like it or not. You have to do it to the highest degree you can. Do this and you'll start seeing something in peoples eyes that you didn't before. I'm not talking about common appreciation. It's hard to describe, but it's as if you begin to actually see/feel/know/be them, and you can feel that in turn, they are aware of this and they are actually seeing you. Because Joseph is not looking, they are looking at themselves. You will begin knowing things about strangers. Some people will become very uncomfortable around you, without exchanging any words. You will know things about them. You will know they feel uncomfortable because they know you really see them and what they've done, what they are ashamed of. But you won't have any judgement involved, because you are them, not Joseph. 

You have to give up / let go of; being right, correcting anybody, the illusion / notion of compeating, hurrying anything or anyone in any way.

You have to stay focused on the worlds within us all. Feelings.  

If this is helpful, as in meets you where you're at, please let me know. Godspeed "Joseph".

 

[Joseph Maynor]

42 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Using words and concepts to challenge other's words and concepts while denying attachment to them.... a classic blind spot in one's awareness.

I'm not challenging.  I've posted an observation and asked for feedback,  others are challenging me, as I requested them to do. I'm the proponent here not the challenger, the guy making the claim not the critic.  I'm really starting to see the depths of this epiphany now.  It's awesome.  I'm in the woods right now contemplating this.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

@Joseph Maynor  Did I quote or tag you in my comment? I guess you must think it applies to you, this is something you may examine more closely in your self, especially since you just challenged my comment.

[Joseph Maynor]

11 hours ago, SOUL said:

@Joseph Maynor  Did I quote or tag you in my comment? I guess you must think it applies to you, this is something you may examine more closely in your self, especially since you just challenged my comment.

Again, my original epiphany has nothing to do with argument.  It's an epiphany, an observation.  It's not a theory.  The act of arguing about that epiphany vs the epiphany itself are apples and oranges.  Similar to the distinction between concept or theory of reality and reality itself.  Apples and oranges there as well.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Ramu]

@Joseph Maynor you got it.  You ARE consciousness.  Period.  You are the Fountainhead.  You are Source.  Check out Headless.org and do the experiments.  After that try some good herb for spiritual contemplation.  You will see who you really are.

[SOUL]

7 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Again, my original epiphany has nothing to do with argument.  It's an epiphany, an observation.  It's not a theory.  The act of arguing about that epiphany vs the epiphany itself are apples and oranges.  Similar to the distinction between concept or theory of reality and reality itself.  Apples and oranges there as well.

Then cease arguing about concepts.... how do you like them apples?