Have Any Of You Guys And Gals Experienced This Epiphany?

[Joseph Maynor]

I'm having an epiphany and I wanna run it by you:

Since all I am is awareness and attaching or releasing in the moment, I'm starting to realize that I have no self to improve, no needs inherently, no fears inherently, and that I can chose to ditch non-positive thinking totally.  Am I off in la la land here?

Add to this if you can.  Broaden and extend this for me please.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor  Hi Joseph,

If you'll excuse my skepticism, given the history of your posts I can't help but think it is a bit of a phish: apologies if it isn't, but I'm going to respond to it as if it is.  No doubt I'll contribute something either way.

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

and that I can chose to ditch non-positive thinking totally

The only way you can do this is if you can ditch non-negative thinking totally.  They're the same thing.  Just the positive and negative of the scale.  The difference is that we want to experience non-negative thinking, and we want to avoid non-positive thinking (i.e. thinking good things).  At least in the typical living paradigm

If your epiphany means thatyou have no self, and no fears, then it doesn't follow that you can 'choose' to ditch non-positive thinking.  After all, what 'you' chooses to ditch non-positive thinking if there is no 'you (self)'?

Edited June 26, 2017 by Telepresent

[Joseph Maynor]

@Telepresent It's no phish friend.  Don't project onto me.  You don't know me.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor Good!  I hope my response is of help.  I'd suggest (it took me a LONG time to figure this one out) that every positive has a negative, every negative has a positive and every up has a down.  So every time you say non-, or un-, look for the opposite

PS.  I just want to say, I like having you on the forum!  It's lovely to have someone challenging this shit!  I don't know if, from your point of view, it might feel like we're all against you or something, but please believe me when I say I'm happy to meet you, speak with you, share ideas with you, and be challenged to the end of my knowledge by you

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor  PS apologies for the phishing accusation (I didn't even use the correct term) but you are correct I was projecting my insecurities onto your post.  Please accept my apologies

[Joseph Maynor]

@Telepresent Leo doesn't want me challenging as much so I gotta cool the combative stuff around here.  I'm ok with that.  Either way I gain.   I challenge because I'm on the path and not dogmatic.  I never said I opposed enlightenment.   I'm well along on that path myself.  Very far along.  And this forum is helping me grow.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

@Joseph Maynor yes, it's true but be careful not to become attached to the absolute perspective.

you have to embrace the paradox, otherwise you'll be struggling forever. you are the universal awareness and awareness itself has nothing to do, nothing to improve and nowhere to go. but you're also a person, an individual being.

so the real question, in which lies the true labor, is

how does a human being thinks, speaks and acts accordingly to his comprehension about the true nature of reality?

in order to embody Truth, one needs to practice with his heart against egoism. then true altruism will become hard-coded in his guts and he will be able to experience liberation.

we can abandon positive thinking when kindness, smiling and sharing become our natural way of living.

[Joseph Maynor]

@ajasatya What if I don't cling to the concept that I am a human being?  I can release that too can I not?

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor  I can see where Leo is coming from, but I also think there's a vaid reason for it: you're interested in this, and it's damn different from your current mental framework.  The difficulty is that this perspective can be tricky to phrase in direct language, or by the rules of the standard paradigm.

And, you know what, you've no reason to doubt the standard paradigm.  I freely admit that.  Why the fuck should you give a shit what I have to say, or what anyone else has to say on this forum? 

Aside from (for me) nobody has ever explained to me how my particular unique set of electro-chemical neurological firings has created an entirely unique universe which is only ever ever ever experienced by me but we'll just ignore that and call it a side-effect of the brain.

Aside from that what you might not doubt the standard paradigm.  Fine.  I'm not interested in convincing you to see the world as I do.  I assume, as someone who posts here, you are interested in playing with ideas and/or experience.

I apologise that I misrepresented you in my last post: you're right, I read your posts in a particular way which favoured my self-perspective that I was all clever and experienced and shit.  I apologise for that.

I back up my comments, though: if you are finding that you are reaching absolutes, search for their opposite.  If solid, look for soft.  If black, look for white.

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor  Yes, you can.  You may physically be determined to die as a human being, but you could live a life believing yourself an aardvark

[Joseph Maynor]

@Telepresent Let's not argue about it.  I respect his wish.  Let's grow constructively.  It's better for us anyway.  I'll just focus on building rather than tearing-down.  They're two sides of the same coin really.  You'll get to the same destination on either road eventually.  So it's no harm no foul.  I'll just worry about my own growth primarily and stop trying to goose others out of dogmatism on here.  I don't need to play that role here.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

@ajasatya What if I don't cling to the concept that I am a human being?  

then stop eating, sleeping and working. how can you read? are you using the internet?

you're either trying to deny the paradox or trying to avoid the huge emotional work that's necessary to master yourself.

enlightenment is not an intellectual game of concepts in some logical framework. i am a computer scientist and i had a hard time with it myself.

enlightenment requires a full body commitment. heart included.

[Joseph Maynor]

@ajasatya Can I choose to do all those things and still release the notion that I am a human being?  Think about it.  There is no necessary nexus there.  Just because I put food into my mouth doesn't mean I need to cling to the concept that I am a human being.  In one case food is attached to.  In the other a concept is attached to.  Do you appreciate the difference?

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor  I like the principle of your statement.  If you feel this isn't the right place for you, fair enough and I will be sad to see you go.  I have appreciated the challenge you have brought to the boarf, though I can appreciate it might seem very one-sided and even as an assault from your point of view

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Telepresent said:

@Joseph Maynor  I like the principle of your statement.  If you feel this isn't the right place for you, fair enough and I will be sad to see you go.  I have appreciated the challenge you have brought to the boarf, though I can appreciate it might seem very one-sided and even as an assault from your point of view

I'd hate to disappoint ya Telepresent but you're stuck with me dude!  I win either way to repeat myself.  I grow either way.  I've been doing personal development work for 17 years.  Started when I was 22.  So, I grow regardless now because I'm always working at something.  Filling holes.  No matter what I do now I grow. Something bad happens -- growth.  Something good happens -- growth.  Two sides of the same coin.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor GOOD!

I was trying to get my laptop just now to re-edit my statement because I was concerned that I was encouraging you to leave, which is the opposite of what I want (it's so easy to say "oh, I'm so sorry, you don't fit in here...")

Man, you've provided me the most stark confrontation of me.  I can't argue with that.  Thank you

 

13 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 I'll just worry about my own growth primarily

Good, but I'll happily keep giving you jabs as and when I think you might want them

[Telepresent]

@Joseph Maynor Ok, good.  I still want to say the following, which is probably more about me than you, but I feel like I need to say it, so please allow the self-indulgence:

I get the feeling I've massively misunderstood you, like a sitcom character who doesn't like the new neighbour.  I'll freely admit I've judged you without right and I'm not even sure why - probably because I read one post in a particular tone and determined that I KNEW what you meant.  I hope I can recant for that as I learn more

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Telepresent said:

@Joseph Maynor Ok, good.  I still want to say the following, which is probably more about me than you, but I feel like I need to say it, so please allow the self-indulgence:

I get the feeling I've massively misunderstood you, like a sitcom character who doesn't like the new neighbour.  I'll freely admit I've judged you without right and I'm not even sure why - probably because I read one post in a particular tone and determined that I KNEW what you meant.  I hope I can recant for that as I learn more

Yeah.  When you get little tastes of enlightenment you realize that enlightenment is more like a journey than a destination.  If you're working, you're always on the cusp of your next epiphany and growth point.  Then it's like wham-o.  Oh damn! This is the next level!  I'm one notch from before now!   How's the air up here?  Sniff sniff.  How do I adapt to this?  How will my life change?  

Edited June 27, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@ajasatya Can I choose to do all those things and still release the notion that I am a human being?  Think about it.  There is no necessary nexus there.  

that's fine. you'd be simply playing with the semantics behind the words human being, which i don't find exactly an interesting task.

in many ancient suttas, sidhartha gautama himself mentions the struggling that intellectually driven men encounter on the path due to their attachments to the thinking process. they face suffering because they're addicted to being right/correct and proving others are wrong/mistaken. this habit strengthens their egos in subtle ways (pride and arrogance) and they end up going in the opposite direction while convinced they're getting closer and closer to some ultimate intellectual comprehension.

with Love,

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

that's fine. you'd be simply playing with the semantics behind the words human being, which i don't find exactly an interesting task.

in many ancient suttas, sidhartha gautama himself mentions the struggling that intellectually driven men encounter on the path due to their attachments to the thinking process. they face suffering because they're addicted to being right/correct and proving others are wrong/mistaken. this habit strengthens their egos in subtle ways (pride and arrogance) and they end up going in the opposite direction while convinced they're getting closer and closer to some ultimate intellectual comprehension.

with Love,

 

8 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

that's fine. you'd be simply playing with the semantics behind the words human being, which i don't find exactly an interesting task.

in many ancient suttas, sidhartha gautama himself mentions the struggling that intellectually driven men encounter on the path due to their attachments to the thinking process. they face suffering because they're addicted to being right/correct and proving others are wrong/mistaken. this habit strengthens their egos in subtle ways (pride and arrogance) and they end up going in the opposite direction while convinced they're getting closer and closer to some ultimate intellectual comprehension.

with Love,

Words and concepts are two different things and are attached to in similar but different ways.  I don't have to cling to the concept of human being.  The word usage is irrelevant.  I can release the notion that I am a human being.  Try it yourself.  This is not intellectual.  It's clear to me anyway.  I will not beat you over the head to get you to see this.  That's not my role here.  All I'm saying is I see it.  I get it very profoundly.  And I'm looking for some feedback over this epiphany I've had.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Joseph Maynor