Is Anyone Here On This Forum, Trully Enlightened?

[ajasatya]

@Dino D start slowly. meditate once a week for 2~3 months and see how it feels. let this habit sink in your body

then move on. meditate more often. see how it feels after 6 months, always noticing how you are embodying the practice.

then meditate everyday. take your time to completely embody the practice.

after mastery, you'll be meditating 24/7 and living consciously in this big mystical thing we call present moment.

insights will come naturally. you just have to do the job. that's why we don't talk about enlightenment in zen. we just practice it until we master it. it's already very rare and difficult, so we better take the most straightforward approach.

[Telepresent]

2 minutes ago, Dino D said:

If your point is true, then there should be fully enlightened people on this forum,  because of this forum... but there arent... similar to that, there aren't new Teslas because of the internet/forum... the forum helps from 0.1% to 20% I guess, but maybe it's only 0.1% help for Enlightenment,, but now I'm guessing and talking superficially, not ,,facts".

Good - I like the skepticism here   One counter I'd suggest for the first point is that enlightened people just might not be interested in coming back.  Certainly my interest in this forum ebbs and flows, and it normally flows if I recognise that I'm feeling a little stuck and need some inspirational prodding.  I can't see why I'd come back here if I were to become enlightened (as I understand it).

The point, though, isn't whether it helps other people: it's whether it helps you.  If it does, stay.  If it doesn't, leave.  Fuck the rest of us and what we say - your journey is about you, and as much as I can scream 'do this!  do that!', I've not lived a day in your shoes.  I can advise, not tell, and that's the same for anyone here

[S33K3R]

You will never find an enlightened person by asking this question. An enlightened person will have no interest in answering. Only an ego has interest in answering this question. You will find an enlightened person by bringing yourself as much awareness as possible. Then if you pass by an enlightened one you may see. Though I couldn't imagine an enlightened person spending time on a forum like this. I think I might laugh to see a Buddha talking amongst us in a forum

Edited June 26, 2017 by S33K3R

[Dizzy]

8 minutes ago, Dino D said:

If your point is true, then there should be fully enlightened people on this forum,  because of this forum... but there arent... the forum helps from 0.1% to 20% I guess, but maybe it's only 0.1% help for Enlightenment,, but now I'm guessing and talking superficially, not ,,facts".

What do mean by "fully enlightened"? 

What is enlightenment theory for you? Don't need to tell me, just ask yourself that.  

If you are looking to feel happy and be connected to God, I am sorry but that is not enlightenment. 

IMO, we can't simply watch a few videos and decide "on yeah I wanna be enlightened", then do one or two pratictes and figure "if Leo never got it, I won't either". 

Well, the process needs to start from the very begginging. You need to learn to change your whole judgmental perspective over yourself and what others did and others do. Yes, you may never beat Usain Bolt, but that is NOT a comparison to realize our true nature. This is NOT a competition in X time.

Much Like Leo said, 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Dino D

Before you go embarking on enlightenment, teach yourself some basic laws of success. Some Tony Robbins or Brian Tracy or Law of Attraction. Not only will you not get enlightened, you will suck at life in general if you keep thinking like that.

Seems to me that there are tons of practices you need to focus on before getting into self pity " I will never be enlightened". I reccomend looking to master your emotions, make peace with yourself, learn to be present, learn to be extremely patient, watch Leo's video How to Get Started with Self Actualization - over 40 techniques and TRULY apply the pratictes you choose for a few years. That's when you will really start climbing the Everest  and during the climbing, the forum is here to help with others insights and experiences that we may have been through

[ajasatya]

14 minutes ago, S33K3R said:

You will never find an enlightened person by asking this question. An enlightened person will have no interest in answering. Only an ego has interest in answering this question. You will find an enlightened person by bringing yourself as much awareness as possible. Then if you pass by an enlightened one you may see.

this is TRUE.

14 minutes ago, S33K3R said:

Though I couldn't imagine an enlightened person spending time on a forum like this. I think I might laugh to see a Buddha talking amongst us in a forum

then let me propose some food for thought. what if the internet we have is some archaic form of platform/tool for spiritual union among humans?
past (and present) buddhas talk a lot about using all the skillful means to spread the dharma and encourage people to practice it. why not the internetz?

[Jani]

In my experience, this is a field of patience and emotional labor. You have to look at things you don't want to look at, you have to admit things you don't want to admit, and do the actual work. This is also a super "lonely" life style so to speak. You won't find many people to talk with about this stuff unless you want to come out as some kind of a weirdo. I don't exactly know myself why I keep doing this, I just feel like this is the right thing to do, even if it hurts. I thought that I would be a lot happier once I started this journey, but there is tons of suffering along the way, and even if you are a bit happier, you'll get used to it and treat it as a norm. As for advice even though I'm a newbie myself, I would say that this is a field where comparing yourself to others and being the best isn't just the thing you have to have in your scope, you have to focus on more critical issues in your own life and behavior.

[S33K3R]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

this is TRUE.

then let me propose some food for thought. what if the internet we have is some archaic form of platform/tool for spiritual union among humans?
past (and present) buddhas talk a lot about using all the skillful means to spread the dharma and encourage people to practice it. why not the internetz?

I believe an internet forum is too much distraction for a Buddha possibly? Remember Siddhartha had to sit in contemplation for a very long time to realize. I believe the noise of the internet and buzzing opinions may just be too much distraction. Perhaps not though

[Loreena]

I don't think 

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Dino D With that attitude, you're def fucked.

Before you go embarking on enlightenment, teach yourself some basic laws of success. Some Tony Robbins or Brian Tracy or Law of Attraction. Not only will you not get enlightened, you will suck at life in general if you keep thinking like that.

I have to reply on this one, in two parts:

1. response to your criticism of my attitude and of me as a person (in brother spectrum): It almost seems to me like youre personally attacked by my attitude, or a bit offended, and what happend? You judged me to easily, you took too lightly the conclusion about my attitudes and puted me in a bad box of people with very bad attitude, who need tony robins and who will suck in life... like you lost your cool... why? maybe because someware in your counciousness you too think I'm right, and you react automaticly with attacking my attitude, protecing your life and your seeaker path, because what I said worries you too... Now I'm judging you to easily without having enough data for high quality systematic thinking, and high quality conclusions about your thinking 

2. Talking about me as a person to disproving your point, and to clear up my attituds, and still defendig my point about Bolt and enlightenment:

- I belive everybody can lose weight and be healthy

- I belive everybody can be a milionare

-I belive meditation can help for a lot of things

- I belive that you can heal cancer and desises with just taughts or with fasting/nutrition

- I belive that all those spirutual or psyholigical excercises can help you, change you, heal you emotionaly, make a different person of you

-I belive I can be happy, everyone can

- I belive in all those human projects that can save the people, stop war, heal the world

- I belive drugs can help me and everybody

- I belive the enlightement path can help me in my life for a lot of stuff (emotions, personal change etc.)

- I belive that I can be the fastes runner in my country, evan if i'm not predisposed to it, not sporty or geneticaly fast, but it is possible

and so on- conclusion I'm a positive, open minded person, willing to help, to fight, to die, to love, to learn... and if tony robbins is in a bad mood I can help evan him,,, (not that I'm on a higher level than him, i just have that attitude-it can be done)

 and still: I don't belive I can get enlightened or I can ever run faster than usain bolt, and all of you are attacking me for that attitude, for something that is reallity(i think)... The usain bolt These I dont have to explain I belive, you all probably agree with it...

The fully enlightenment tese is where you attack me... why? because it worries you, or because you only want to help me, and chear me up, give me hope, thats great but still it's not correct (I HOPE I'M WRONG)... My conclusions are made from statistical thinking: (not emotions) and my personal experience, as example:

10.000 people in this forum try to get enlightened (including Leo) for 1-10 years... the success rate is 0%, a lot of those people (example LEO) are much more talented, smarter, work harder and longer then me and can't make it... all of the eckart tolle, rupert spira, mojiji folowers also can't make it... Why would I belive to make it? what attitude would that be? A deluded and unrealistic one I think...

Leo saw the true reallty, has a sistematic thinking and a sharp mind for this ,,reallity" in witch we live, and I can still say, it is imossibile for all of us in this reality to beat Usain Bolt, and to get enlightened, ok maybe 10-100 people in this world can do that!!!!

 

and for the end, another bolt-enlightenment analogy: If i would really try to beat bolt, I would train as hard as possible, and fuck up my legs, and my spine, and die, or i would train, get a lot faster , but not nearly fast as him. POINT MADE!!! enlightenment-try it- get fuck up, deppressed, leave family, job and kids and at the and comite sucide haha (so pesimistic), or just try it, and don't achive it, have problems on the way, lose time and other stuff,...

 

So systematicaly thinking, evan without attitudes or perspectives, I belive it's an impossible goal, if it wolud be possible than a lot of you hard working, smart, psychedelic taking, open minded, great people would achive it, but NO ONE does... 

 

Bonus: from my personal thinkig: I trully belive Leo can make it, he can get enlightened... if you can't make it in this style now... you just have to leave everything for the path (like budha, Jesus and other, you cant focus on carrear, job, youtube, and forum and seek enlightement, leave everything or maybe it can be done in this way... but this is also a fast made and shallow comment...

[Dino D]

3 hours ago, Telepresent said:

Good - I like the skepticism here   One counter I'd suggest for the first point is that enlightened people just might not be interested in coming back.  Certainly my interest in this forum ebbs and flows, and it normally flows if I recognise that I'm feeling a little stuck and need some inspirational prodding.  I can't see why I'd come back here if I were to become enlightened (as I understand it).

The point, though, isn't whether it helps other people: it's whether it helps you.  If it does, stay.  If it doesn't, leave.  Fuck the rest of us and what we say - your journey is about you, and as much as I can scream 'do this!  do that!', I've not lived a day in your shoes.  I can advise, not tell, and that's the same for anyone here

That would be selfish if they get it with forum help and then never come back and say anything, and not from one ,,budauser" but from everyone...  but I feel the love in your commnet, thx

[Dino D]

3 hours ago, S33K3R said:

You will never find an enlightened person by asking this question. An enlightened person will have no interest in answering. Only an ego has interest in answering this question. You will find an enlightened person by bringing yourself as much awareness as possible. Then if you pass by an enlightened one you may see. Though I couldn't imagine an enlightened person spending time on a forum like this. I think I might laugh to see a Buddha talking amongst us in a forum

that could be true... so there are enlightened people out there that we dont know? (besides mojiji, eckart, rupert, and the other 10-20-30 know to humanity)... if there are, how much are out there? 10, 100, 1000??? and still, maybe it's  to hard and imposible 4 us to ever make it...

[Dino D]

3 hours ago, Dizzy said:

What do mean by "fully enlightened"? 

What is enlightenment theory for you? Don't need to tell me, just ask yourself that.  

If you are looking to feel happy and be connected to God, I am sorry but that is not enlightenment. 

IMO, we can't simply watch a few videos and decide "on yeah I wanna be enlightened", then do one or two pratictes and figure "if Leo never got it, I won't either". 

Well, the process needs to start from the very begginging. You need to learn to change your whole judgmental perspective over yourself and what others did and others do. Yes, you may never beat Usain Bolt, but that is NOT a comparison to realize our true nature. This is NOT a competition in X time.

Much Like Leo said, 

Seems to me that there are tons of practices you need to focus on before getting into self pity " I will never be enlightened". I reccomend looking to master your emotions, make peace with yourself, learn to be present, learn to be extremely patient, watch Leo's video How to Get Started with Self Actualization - over 40 techniques and TRULY apply the pratictes you choose for a few years. That's when you will really start climbing the Everest  and during the climbing, the forum is here to help with others insights and experiences that we may have been through

This forum is worh milions, it helps more then doctors  it can save lifes-just amazing... thx also to you an people like you...

The Bolt comparison is maybe wrong and not comparable to this path- this can be true... I dont know, but I'm willing to accept this point...

I need to master my emotions, to make peace with myself, to learn to be persent, to be PATIENT-all true... climbing the everest is nice- a lot of top Physically advanced professional climbers died trying that, but maybe I can do it    ( climbing the everest is easier then enlightenment)

[Dino D]

3 hours ago, Jani said:

In my experience, this is a field of patience and emotional labor. You have to look at things you don't want to look at, you have to admit things you don't want to admit, and do the actual work. This is also a super "lonely" life style so to speak. You won't find many people to talk with about this stuff unless you want to come out as some kind of a weirdo. I don't exactly know myself why I keep doing this, I just feel like this is the right thing to do, even if it hurts. I thought that I would be a lot happier once I started this journey, but there is tons of suffering along the way, and even if you are a bit happier, you'll get used to it and treat it as a norm. As for advice even though I'm a newbie myself, I would say that this is a field where comparing yourself to others and being the best isn't just the thing you have to have in your scope, you have to focus on more critical issues in your own life and behavior.

Yes my friend, true, that's my experience too, its hard to admit things, it's lonely, depressing and that's all wath it is for me... just as my life would be if I try to beat Bolt-it wold be a very bad life, full of lonelyness, suffering, and things hard to admit... that's why I ask all of this... is it right, does it make sense 4 me...

[Dino D]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

Btw first after you've had an awakening experience you might think immortality is possible, of course not in the way we think now, like "physically" but in another way. That's what it was to me the day after. I forgot about it. It's easy to forget. It goes back to normal. Every. Single. Time. And you're back in the routine not being on the path.

I also enlightenment, if you start in your 20's, is probably typical around 40-50's and you are practicing daily and using psychedelics later on. I think around 40, 45, is a good age to use psychedelics with like 14600 hours of meditation.

Ignore anyone saying you wont become enlightened with 14k hours of meditation and using psychedelics. 10 K hours is around the point you reach mastery. Add in an hour of self inquiry and you're done. I want this to be my plan but that means I have to quit everything else that is wasting my time.

Just do it... maybe you can leave everything for 3-7 days, be alone with your sefl, do such retreats 3-4 times a year, maybe that will give you ,,strong wind for sailing"...

[WelcometoReality]

 

@Dino D It's easy to get caught up in black and white reasoning. Maybe don't set a goal of becoming enlightened. Do the practice because you enjoy it. See that it will increase your life quality whether you'll become enlightened or not.

Take any successful athlete or musician. They wouldn't be where they are unless they enjoyed the day to day practice. 

[Dino D]

Just now, WelcometoReality said:

 

@Dino D It's easy to get caught up in black and white reasoning. Maybe don't set a goal of becoming enlightened. Do the practice because you enjoy it. See that it will increase your life quality whether you'll become enlightened or not.

Take any successful athlete or musician. They wouldn't be where they are unless they enjoyed the day to day practice. 

Practice gives me side effects, insomnia, tensions other problems... it could be explained like kundalini side effects, or dark night of the soul... or in a helth vocabulary way as adrenal fatigue...

[Mastral]

4 hours ago, ajasatya said:

this is TRUE.

then let me propose some food for thought. what if the internet we have is some archaic form of platform/tool for spiritual union among humans?
past (and present) buddhas talk a lot about using all the skillful means to spread the dharma and encourage people to practice it. why not the internetz?

 

4 hours ago, S33K3R said:

You will never find an enlightened person by asking this question. An enlightened person will have no interest in answering. Only an ego has interest in answering this question. You will find an enlightened person by bringing yourself as much awareness as possible. Then if you pass by an enlightened one you may see. Though I couldn't imagine an enlightened person spending time on a forum like this. I think I might laugh to see a Buddha talking amongst us in a forum

What is up with this attitude that enlightened individuals instantly leave fora like this and never speak out? Not quite the endless compassion I keep hearing about...

@Dino D

Wouldn't it be nice if one could buy a video course from Mooji, R Spira or some other guy and it would bring Bliss, Happiness and Endless Joy? (someone also mentioned immortality). I'm not even sure if Enlightenment exists, what effects it has on ones life and how long/much it takes to get it. What I know is that obsessing about it will have the opposite effect and rather than being in the now, one has a constant never-ending Enlightment To-Do list. Appreciate the Now, don't chase anything but give it a try.

In any case, meditation retreat is apparently a good, chemical-free way to get you closer to the experience you desire.

[Mastral]

10 minutes ago, Outer said:

Btw first after you've had an awakening experience you might think immortality is possible, of course not in the way we think now, like "physically" but in another way.

Please explain. This is not the first time it is mentioned and it intrigued me.

[WelcometoReality]

5 minutes ago, Dino D said:

Practice gives me side effects, insomnia, tensions other problems... it could be explained like kundalini side effects, or dark night of the soul... or in a helth vocabulary way as adrenal fatigue...

What does your day to day practice look like?

[SOUL]

It isn't a race and there is nobody to beat, not even your own self, so the comparison of Usain Bolt may not be so apropos to it. Enlightenment is just a word, it's used to refer to the process of awakening of what is asleep in us and an illumination of the darkened in our consciousness. It isn't some achievement to be gained or a destination that can arrived at, it's an ongoing process that is like the waxing and waning of the moon or the ebb and flow of the tides.