Very Little Progress With Enlightenment Work

[goodwig]

Hi there,

I have been meditating on an almost daily basis since January 2015 and have been very interested in spirituality since then, reading a number of spiritual texts and watching many videos on spirituality especially many of Leo's. My problem seems to be that it almost seems like I'm immune or something to any spiritual practice or growth as I have not seemed to progress at all since I began my journey about 2 and a half years ago. I even went on a week long meditation retreat in Thailand in December 2015 (almost a year of meditation/spirituality experience) and I seemed to be pretty much the only one not reporting any interesting spiritual experiences during the retreat.

Through the research I've done on spirituality, I feel I have a good grasp on some of the more common hindrances to spiritual growth such as having expectations, looking outside for answers and having strong beliefs that block growth as well as many tricks of the ego. I currently also practice daily mindfulness often using Leo's labelling technique (outer hear, see, feel/inner hear, see, feel) as well as observing my breath and just trying to be in the moment as much as possible. I have also tried experimenting with mushrooms and either experience intense anxiety or almost nothing when I take them.

I feel proud of myself that I have been trying for over two years even with no results but at this point I'm also feeling like I'm losing my motivation to keep pursuing enlightenment work even though intellectually I know it is pretty much our only purpose as human beings. So basically what I'm looking for is any advice on what might be at the root of my problem that I may not have come across during my research. I realize I have not provided a whole lot of information here so please feel free to ask me any probing questions that may help you to assess what I may be missing and in addition I'm also open to being referred to any previous posts that may have presented similar situations (I am new to this forum and have not looked much yet).  

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this and any advice you provide.

Thanks,

Glen

Edited June 26, 2017 by goodwig

[Flow With Life]

I have no idea what your experience is like, and I'm no expert, but I can offer some tips. Maybe try asking yourself why you want enlightenment in the first place? It also seems that your metric for "progress" is "interesting spiritual experiences", which seems to indicate a desire for something other than what is.

Maybe try reflecting on more subtle or gradual changes such as how you have changed as a person over these past 2 years, are you happier than normal? more peaceful? less reactive? I think these are much better metrics than "had cool spiritual experiences".

It's also possible you just haven't found a technique that jives with you yet, so perhaps try exploring different techniques. Or possibly you haven't committed enough and dived in DEEP into one technique?

As for psychedelics, try up-ing the dosage or find a better dealer?

Edited June 25, 2017 by Flow With Life

[goodwig]

@Flow With Life Thank you for the reply!

My reason for wanting enlightenment is that I want to be able to accept and enjoy every moment and experience more peace in my life in addition to realizing my true nature.

My metric for progress in not necessarily experiences but I just mentioned that to try to point out that I feel like there is something unusual about me that is really making it difficult for me to make progress. I'd say I would measure progress more based on expansion of consciousness but I feel there has been almost no change in my level of consciousness. Early on in 2015 I definitely noticed one change I went through was less reaction as you mentioned. Prior to starting meditation, I would get angry very easy but now it takes a lot more for me to react. But other than some of those changes I seem to have hit a very early plateau.

I agree that I probably need to experiment with new techniques, my girlfriend has suggested that to me as well but at the same time I feel I have tried various techniques including self inquiry and many of the meditation techniques Leo has mentioned in his videos (do nothing, concentration, etc.) So yeah, maybe trying more and committing more would be helpful.

Regarding psychedelics, I grow my own mushrooms and they seem to work very well for my girlfriend so I don't think there's a potency issue or anything.

Some good points though, much appreciated!

[Prabhaker]

@goodwig

Read this whole thread and find what is missing.

 

[goodwig]

@Prabhaker Wow, a lot to go through there! But I'll take the time as I know there are no easy answers or easy shortcuts to be found on the path to enlightenment  Thank you!

[Bob84]

@goodwig try being more pressent in the body instead of in your head all the time, watch some mooji videos and be brutaly honest with yourself. 

[Leo Gura]

@goodwig How much self-inquiry have you done?

You could easily meditate for 30 years and not get enlightenment. Many people are in that place.

Enlightenment requires a lot more directness if you really care about it. Meditation is generally too indirect, although it can be a good launching point.

Ultimately, you gotta be laser-concentrated on wanting to know what the true nature of reality/self is. You need to cultivate a very deep existential desire to know What is Absolutely TRUE?

[goodwig]

@Outer They were dried, and I grow them myself using proper technique and have had effects from them before as does my girlfriend. Upon reading your comment about medication I did a little bit of research and think I found the issue. It's not an antipsychotic, but I did recently start a new medication that seems to have the ability to kill the effects of psychedelics.

Edited June 26, 2017 by goodwig

[goodwig]

@Bob84 I have been practicing inner body awareness as taught by Tolle as well as observing my breath as often as I can (I have a boring office job so it gives me lots of opportunities to do so haha). Will try looking into mooji though

Edited June 26, 2017 by goodwig

[goodwig]

@Leo Gura Not enough. I've tried it for a few months at different points in my journey but didn't feel it was right for me as I know that there are no techniques that will be right for everyone. I have been thinking lately though that maybe I need to give it another chance and really commit to it this time which may be the best way for me to go.

What about cultivating a very deep existential desire to know What is Absolutely TRUE? I feel I have a desire but probably not strong enough anymore. Would you say getting a good glimpse via psychedelics would be a good strategy to help supercharge my desire again?

[Leo Gura]

@goodwig You're right about that, it's very not good for YOU  That's enlightenment. The issue is that you don't really want it. You're searching for goodness, not Truth. So don't be surprised if you never find it.

Yes, of course psychedelics can give you a deep glimpse in just 15 minutes.

It also helps to go to retreats. Lots and lots of retreats. This issue requires massive work for most people, and for some, extra extra massive work.

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, goodwig said:

it almost seems like I'm immune or something to any spiritual practice or growth as I have not seemed to progress at all since I began my journey about 2 and a half years ago.

Osho Dynamic meditation, is a jet-speed method for inner transformation.

http://www.oshodynamic.com/five-stages.html

 

[goodwig]

@jimrich Thank you Jim, I really like what you had to say here. Reminds me of one of my favorite Eckhart Tolle quotes (maybe paraphrasing here): "What problem do you have at THIS moment, not even 10 seconds ago or 10 seconds from now, but at THIS moment" and you realize there are no problems in the NOW. I know this is a common theme with enlightenment and one of its key characteristics, just gotta practice living it more  

Edited June 26, 2017 by goodwig

[cetus]

@goodwig I agree with everything Leo said. 

And just to add my experience at this point of my journey to that. Meditation is a great tool to have in your toolbox but it's just one of many. Meditation is great for finding stillness and cultivating persistence and discipline in practice. Meditation, self enquiry and contemplation are all huge parts. Along with some degree of knowledge to point the way. But also some direct experience of what enlightenment is. An experience that can be referenced even when you fall back out of the direct experience. Which will happen. A  big part is cultivation. Constant cultivation like tending/ nurturing a garden to maturity. And maturity takes time. Think of it this way. Everything you know and have experienced of enlightenment today is growing inside of you like a seed. And a viable seed is a good healthy start. And like planting a garden, you may set the seed in the ground and not see much at first. Than at some point, a small seedling will break out of the ground. That would be a first direct experience. And also like a new seedling, you may not experience obvious rapid growth after emergence. And why. Because the plant is putting it's energy into establishing strong roots underground that will someday support an established plant that will be fruitful. So it is with the growth of enlightenment. 

Just because you don't see much obvious progress right now, that doesn't mean it's not happening. You are establishing roots. And just the fact you've already set the seed is a huge start. Keep cultivating and trust in nature/ universe that it knows what it's doing.

[cetus]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, of course psychedelics can give you a deep glimpse in just 15 minutes.

@goodwig I guess psychedelics could be considered 'Miracle Grow' in my plant metaphor of spiritual growth.