Are We Really Complete As God (no-self)?

[Dodo]

I'm sure it has been asked, but it this monkey mind has a strong valid point??

If god is utterly complete, why would separation arise. If God is enough unto itself (beyond time and space), why would time and space even arise? It feels like God is missing something in it's original form (beyond time and space) and what it is missing is time and space, so they are created... The timeless is incomplete, it needs timeYES. God is incomplete, it needs 7billion+ Egos to feel complete I guess..... !

[Nahm]

@Dodo Is it possible, perhaps, that God is missing nothing? There is no separation, only perception. Ant's probably can't perceive the view from 6 feet above on hundreds of them. A wise man once said "we all do it the same way".

[Prabhaker]

13 hours ago, Dodo said:

God is incomplete, it needs 7billion+ Egos to feel complete I guess..... !

Hindus call it 'Leela', a play. It is unmotivated, it is desireles - because motivation will bring something from the outside. That's why Hindus call it leela, a play. A play comes from the inside.

God is playing with Himself. Of course, He was nobody except Himself, so He is playing a hide-and-seek with Himself. He hides one of His hands and tries to find it with another hand, knowing all the time where it is.

13 hours ago, Dodo said:

If god is utterly complete, why would separation arise.

In the East we have always depicted God as a dancer, not as a creator -- God as Nataraj, the Master Dancer. Why? There is something immensely meaningful in that concept.

God is not the painter, because when the painter does a painting, the painting becomes separate from the painter. When the painter has finished with the painting, the painting has its own existence. The painter may die, the painting can live. And when the painter has finished the painting, it may be a beautiful painting, but it is dead because the painter cannot put his breath into it. That is not possible. He cannot pour his vitality into it, his life into it. The painting may be beautiful but a painting is a painting -- it is dead. God is not a painter, God is not a potter; God is a dancer.

What is the meaning of it? In dance, the dancer and the dance are one, they can never be separated. That is the beauty of the dancer. The poet is separate from the poetry, the potter is separate from his pottery, the painter is separate from his painting, the sculptor is different, separate from his creation, and so on and so forth. Only the dancer is not separate. The dancer is the dance. And when the dancer is really in the dance, there is no dancer in him, all disappears. It is just pure, vibrant energy, it is just pure energy dancing. There is no ego in it. The dance comes to perfection when the dancer dissolves into it. But the moment dance stops... then you cannot find dance anywhere, it is not separate from the dancer.

And one thing more: the dance cannot exist separate from the dancer, and the dancer too cannot exist separate from the dance. When you say that this is a dancer, and if he is not dancing, your description is not right. A dancer is only a dancer while in dance, otherwise he is no more a dancer. Then it is a linguistic fallacy that you go on calling him a dancer -- because 'Yesterday he was dancing.' Then yesterday he was a dancer. Or 'Tomorrow he will dance again.' Then tomorrow he will be a dancer again. But right now if he is not dancing, then he must be somebody else. If he is walking, he is a walker; if he is running, he is a runner; if he is sitting, he is a sitter -- but not a dancer. Dancer and dance exist together. In fact, they are not separate. God is not the creator of the world. God is its creativity, its very soul. He is in the trees, and in the rocks, in you, in me -- he is everywhere, he is all. But to know this God, you will have to drop guessing. Because when he is inside you, what is the point of guessing? Why don't you go in? Why don't you close your eyes and travel inwards? Come to a point where no thought exists and you will know what God is.

-Osho, I Say Unto You

Edited June 25, 2017 by Prabhaker

[123456789]

You're assuming that the Self (in its pure form) created the world. Is the Self (in its pure form) a doer? 

[Falk]

On 24.6.2017 at 1:12 PM, Dodo said:

I'm sure it has been asked, but it this monkey mind has a strong valid point??

The monkey mind is functional enough to give us an advantage in the course of the evolution, that is its valid point.

On 24.6.2017 at 1:12 PM, Dodo said:

If god is utterly complete, why would separation arise.

if completeness and seperation are concepts that exclude each other, then it might be that your conceps may not be fully accurate.

On 24.6.2017 at 1:12 PM, Dodo said:

If God is enough unto itself (beyond time and space), why would time and space even arise?

If time & space are entities separted from god , maybe your definition of that word "god" is not usefull and hence your problem/question. It is a follow-up mistake coming from an wrong assumption about time/space & god.

On 24.6.2017 at 1:12 PM, Dodo said:

It feels like God is missing something in it's original form (beyond time and space) and what it is missing is time and space, so they are created...

again, what if you started holding an alternative concept in wich space&time and god are not exclusive... after all these are just concepts, sort of like fantasies ... know that you can do a lot with your mind , and not every thought you can produce is a meaningful one. In fact i would argue most thought, if not all, are just mental masturbation without actual impact.

On 24.6.2017 at 1:12 PM, Dodo said:

The timeless is incomplete, it needs timeYES. God is incomplete, it needs 7billion+ Egos to feel complete I guess..... !

You assume that god is an entity that wants something, that feels something , you are attributing your fantasy of "god" with your own human characteristics.

Might that assumtion be groundless? On what basis do you take your own assumption to be true? 

I hope contemplating these question will help you finding what you search for.

Cheers

[Dodo]

On 24/06/2017 at 1:07 PM, Nahm said:

@Dodo Is it possible, perhaps, that God is missing nothing? There is no separation, only perception. Ant's probably can't perceive the view from 6 feet above on hundreds of them. A wise man once said "we all do it the same way".

I am watching this Betinho vid, and here he says something that reminded me of this thread. Maybe I was on to something

Btw, if you get into this video it's pretty slick, and I think I've been doing this exercise he is telling people to do with the thought "Who am I"  

Edited July 16, 2017 by Dodo

[Kserkkj]

@Dodo I think under Bentinho's Paradigm, the reason for creation is simply to express itself because think about it, infinite as potential only isn't complete without expression, and the only way it can be truly infinite is to express itself in as many ways possible to approach that limit, Hence creation, and the illusion of duality...

[Loreena]

It can't be proved whether God created this universe, time,space, humans. It is we who have created this concept. I do believe in God because I feel to do so however I don't believe that he created everything to satisfy himself just like a painter creates a masterpiece, not to complete himself but to create his art and express himself. This universe is God's gift, a masterpiece, a creation and in everything that you see around you God is manifested in some way, except we humans who are cunning enough to manipulate that manifestation in us. Yeah, we kinda ruined the gift. 

So the answer is, an artist is already complete and doesn't need his art to complete himself.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Loreena said:

It can't be proved whether God created this universe, time,space, humans. It is we who have created this concept. I do believe in God because I feel to do so however I don't believe that he created everything to satisfy himself just like a painter creates a masterpiece, not to complete himself but to create his art and express himself. This universe is God's gift, a masterpiece, a creation and in everything that you see around you God is manifested in some way, except we humans who are cunning enough to manipulate that manifestation in us. Yeah, we kinda ruined the gift. 

So the answer is, an artist is already complete and doesn't need his art to complete himself.

Not a fan of what you wrote, because I value knowingness over belief (as you may know from our conversations).

What I mean is that you've expressed in your post things that you believe as if they're fact. (Something that I've encountered many times with my ex gf btw! :-D )

With the second bold statement it can be clearly seen how you've kind of separated humans from God's masterpiece. Humans are just as part of creation as things around us, so in essence you're saying that the gift is ruining the gift. Ruined for who? The gift itself? 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Dodo

[Loreena]

9 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Not a fan of what you wrote, because I value knowingness over belief (as you may know from our conversations).

What I mean is that you've expressed in your posts things that you believe as if they're fact.

With the second bold statement it can be clearly seen how you've kind of separated humans from God's masterpiece. Humans are just as part of creation as things around us, so in essence you're saying that the gift is ruining the gift. 

In some ways its true because humans are continuously destroying the environment which is a great gift that we take for granted. So the gift is ruining the gift.

I acknowledge that whatever I say is not a fact but my belief. (Your ex must have been just as crazy as me. :-D)

We have ruined it not realizing that ultimately our own selfish acts will end up destroying us. What do you call this kind of destruction. It's self destruction. We as humans are unaware of what we do and that's why we do what we do. 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Loreena

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Loreena said:

In some ways its true because humans are continuously destroying the environment which is a great gift that we take for granted. So the gift is ruining the gift.

I acknowledge that whatever I say is not a fact but my belief. (Your ex must have been just as crazy as me. :-D)

We have ruined it not realizing that ultimately our own selfish acts will end up destroying us. What do you call this kind of destruction. It's self destruction. We as humans are unaware of what we do and that's why we do what we do. 

 

I guess this follows the wisdom saying : All evil stems from not knowing who we are.