Local Zendo

[Max_V]

At my local Zendo there is a strong believe that enlightenment is  something impossible. I asked the question to my master there and he said "Enlightenment is something we don't really want to talk about here. It is almost impossible to attain enlightenment so we don't  want to give people the wrong idea. And even if you do get enlightened, you  leave behind everything and can't lead  a  normal life  anymore." 

Is this something that's wrong? Should I do anything about  this?

[Prabhaker]

18 minutes ago, Max_V said:

It is almost impossible to attain enlightenment so we don't  want to give people the wrong idea. And even if you do get enlightened, you  leave behind everything and can't lead  a  normal life  anymore.

You are correct , it is almost impossible to attain enlightenment, but I am enjoying my spiritual journey. When I was living a normal life , I was miserable,  I don't want to live a normal life  anymore. 

One should live a life which he can enjoy most , if somebody can enjoy a normal life, he should not listen to anybody.

[Space]

Depends what their definition of enlightenment is. If they regard enlightenment as the level of consciousness that the Buddha had, or maybe some of the really deeply enlightened masters, then sure it's very very difficult. But it isn't impossible. Although in truth I don't know. 

There's a really good book on Leo's booklist by the author D.I. who mentions this issue of people in the spiritual community not talking about enlightenment.


 

[AlwaysBeNice]

If you belief it's impossible then you won't really try and then it will seem impossible.

Ignorant + arrogant spiritual teachers are the worst.

Enlightenment simply is admitting to and untying all the deep emotional knots so you can be fully let go, realize the Self and be in love.

You can't be here now fully, be authentic self fully and be free as long as you have suppressed unconscious emotions (in the body).

But most people don't want to admit to their deep pains and they get stuck in an idea of entrapment because they think they are beyond crying like a little boy/girl because the emotions were beat out of them and all their lives they have learned to feel fake/'strong' about themselves.

[Nahm]

@Max_V You can pick how you see enlightenment and 'normal'. You can agree or not. It is fundamentally up to you. Let the concept of hierchy go. Get everyone on the same level. Listen to someone who is the example of what you wish to experience. 

[S33K3R]

@Max_V your spiritual teacher is very right. Enlightenment is very unattainable for most. Think of the path of the Buddha. He had to leave all attachment behind in order to even try to attain, with no guarantee at all. This is because people we know create noise and thoughts in our minds. This distraction makes it impossible. I don't chase enlightenment really. I play with it, explore it while enjoying the things in life I would have to renounce if I was serious.

 

This all or nothing thinking is very limiting. Decide the benefits you want from your spiritual journey and make it happen. Don't forget to enjoy the journey my friend.

 

[ajasatya]

@Max_V he's right. even for enlightenment to happen, you have to drop all your desires. you have to drop the desire to become enlightened. you have to just sit for no reason. just sit.

[Nahm]

@ajasatya Are you enlightened?     Actually, no need to answer that. You're probably the nicest human I've ever come across and I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Really, I wonder, how does one know if they are enlightened because there is no objective anything to relate it to. It's only relative to one' own connotations. Right? I feel you will say I am wrong and I'm hoping to learn something in your explaination. Thanks in advance (in hopes of)

Edited June 23, 2017 by Nahm

[Loreena]

Hmmmm

[Max_V]

Very interesting responses guys, I want to become wiser and wiser on this topic but at the same time I just want to chill sometimes too. I guess that's part of it too, finding balance.

Hopefully as the years progress and I keep working hard I can get myself to a higher state of consciousness and keep growing.

Thanks for the input!

 

[ajasatya]

21 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@ajasatya Are you enlightened?     Actually, no need to answer that. You're probably the nicest human I've ever come across and I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Really, I wonder, how does one know if they are enlightened because there is no objective anything to relate it to. It's only relative to one' own connotations. Right? I feel you will say I am wrong and I'm hoping to learn something in your explaination. Thanks in advance (in hopes of)

due to my ability to surrender, i am able to experience enlightenment. that's pretty much it.

now about the question you asked: how does one know if he is enlightened?
before i say anything, i have to say that's a GREAT question. i asked it myself many many many times.
but why is it a hard question to answer? because when it comes down to enlightenment, there's no ultimate authority other than your own direct experience! there's no certificate of enlightenment, so i have to diagnose myself somehow. these are the parameters i use:

• i should be able to be feel compassion instead of playing the victim
• i should be able to focus on what i am doing right now and do it gracefully
• i should be able not to identify with thoughts and not feel unnecessary anxiety or remorse
• i should be able to feel free and content even when life doesn't offer satisfaction
• i should be able to appreciate deep eye contact and silence with any company
• i should be able to contemplate the immateriality of the universe and the miracle of conscious experience
• i should be able to use wisdom to truly help others instead of feeling like some kind of special guru
• i should be able to enjoy sitting still and doing nothing
• i should be a temple of peace for everyone around me
• i should be able to enjoy life at it fullest without the need for strange substances
• i should be able to put people above any doctrine and enjoy the practice of any religion
• i should be happy to work and afford my own existence

Edited June 23, 2017 by ajasatya

[Real Eyes]

I don't think "impossible" is the word they should be using.  Why not just say "extremely difficult"?

[outlandish]

9 hours ago, Max_V said:

At my local Zendo there is a strong believe that enlightenment is  something impossible. I asked the question to my master there and he said "Enlightenment is something we don't really want to talk about here. It is almost impossible to attain enlightenment so we don't  want to give people the wrong idea. And even if you do get enlightened, you  leave behind everything and can't lead  a  normal life  anymore." 

Is this something that's wrong? Should I do anything about  this?

You shouldn't do anything about this, just sit. Zen is a paradox. When you think about attaining enlightenment, you already miss the point. 

[ajasatya]

@Nahm oh and i ended up forgetting the compliment you made. thank you!

but you must have it as well, since you are able to sense kindness in me. and my impressions about you based on your posts confirm it (in my perspective)!

[Max_V]

@ajasatya I heard Sadhguru answer this question with "How do you know when you are enlightened? Well.. It will be so significant that you won't be able to miss it, you just know that something amazing happened."

[Nahm]

@ajasatya ?