What Is The Difference Between Monkey-mind And Ego

[Joseph Maynor]

Gimme some detail please, if applicable.

[Prabhaker]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What Is The Difference Between Monkey-mind And Ego

One center you come with, which is given by existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are. The others have given you the idea. That idea is the ego.

When you are ego , then you are identified with mind, then mind will be a monkey-mind, then mind will be your master. 

When ego drops, and you are your real center, self. Then you become the master of mind, you can use it when there is need, or you can put it at rest when you relax, meditate.

[Emerald]

The ego is the process and product of false identification with things that are not the real self (nothingness, God, etc.). It is what gives us the illusion that we are separate from all other things in reality, when it's really all one unified thing. Monkey mind is a product of the ego-identification process which is designed to solidify and maintain the false identification with the ego-self through constant rebuilding and fortifying of the self-concept and our identification with it.

[Natasha]

@Joseph Maynor Ego is a false sense of self (body-mind). Monkey-mind is thought content that 'feeds' the ego-mind in a manner that does not align with reality. A.k.a 'hamster-in-a-wheel', 'squirrel-on-steroids', or 'mental masturbation'. Daily meditation and mindfulness practice are good ways to quiet/tame monkey-mind.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Prabhaker Doesn't it make sense to draw a distinction between the individual ego and the social ego?  Seems like you are referring to the social ego.  My current understanding is that the social ego is societal in nature, and everything else is the individual ego.  I realize these distinctions may be more or less problematic (or more or less useful depending on which lens you are looking thru for which purpose).  I'm sort of a newbie with all this stuff, but not really too.  Please correct my thinking if you see it differently.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

@Natasha Can you explain a little more about body-mind?  Sounds interesting!

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Doesn't it make sense to draw a distinction between the individual ego and the social ego?

The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with others. If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But that is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean that he will come to know the real self, no. The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must. One has to pass through it. It is a discipline. 

Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The society means all that is around you - not you, but all that is around you. All, minus you, is the society. Center, which is created by the society, is the ego.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Emerald Cool!  I'm gonna check out your content on your channel.  I'm so excited!  I've watched every single one of Leo's videos, many multiple times now.  You and Leo are going to ensure I never get any work done lol!  I love this stuff!  And I'm learning so much.  Can't wait.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Emerald Cool!  I'm gonna check out your content on your channel.  I'm so excited!  I've watched every single one of Leo's videos, many multiple times now.  You and Leo are going to ensure I never get any work done lol!  I love this stuff!  And I'm learning so much.  Can't wait.

Thank you.  I hope that you like the content. It's okay to watch videos for now if you're still getting a sense of growth from it. I had a period of time like this too. I think that it's part of the path. However, a caveat I would offer is that sometimes, with personal development, we can use videos or reading to distract ourselves from facing uncomfortable emotions and tough realities.

For me, for about a year, I was really into Jungian Psychology. I would read every book that I could get my hands on. Then, came a time where I had reached a point where it reached a point of diminishing returns simply just to hash and rehash the theory. So, that dropped off and I found myself a series of various teachers (including Leo) that I absolutely immersed myself in their teachings. And I basically binge watched or read anything that they had to offer.

But in the past year or so, I find that I can barely make myself watch a full video or read a full book of even my favorite teacher's work. I think it's because there's nothing more on the level of knowledge and intellect that I can learn that's going to help me get any closer to my goal of ego-transcendence. Basically, the teachers and videos and books have helped me get to the door, but now only I can go inside. And at this point, immersing myself in anyone's teachings only serves as a distraction for me to avoid the discomforts of what "going in the door" entails.

You will know that you've reached the point of diminishing returns when reading and watching videos becomes something that feels forced and agitating and like it's become another form of meaningless entertainment. However, in the beginning when it's helpful, you will feel a sense of expansion and growth from it and you'll have a lot of "Aha!" moments. So, be sure to always watch your emotions and to take as much action as you can on your goals. 

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Fidelio said:

I'm afraid you are very wrong-->you have much left to learn in your quest for ego transcendence. It's also not just about acquiring knowledge, but actually implementing that knowledge. There are certain things, which you know are an impediment, but which you do anyway. The question is are you able to stop these behaviors? The practice is usually many miles left, right, and up and down from Theory.

That's basically what I said. I think you might have misread what I posted.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Emerald I feel that way about Leo's videos since I've watched them all, some multiple times.  And you are so on point, I totally need to take action now.  I pretty much have the theory wired now.  Everything else theory wise is just a luxury for me.  What I need to be doing is increasing awareness and taking action.  I need to be working on practical personal development now.  Hiding out in theory is an addiction and distraction, but it does help too.  But I think I've got the bulk of the help that theory can give me now.  What I need to do now is actually optimize my schedule and actions to align with my life purpose, which I have already been doing.   Thanks for the reminder.  You are wise. I'm still gonna watch all your videos, but I will pace myself.  There's still a bunch of personal development work that I need to do, but it's practical work not theoretical work.  I'm at that stage, I think.  It means so much to me to hear this from another person.  It's reinforcing.  I like your understanding and appreciation of Taoism concepts. I've studied Taoism on my own and have traveled to China and Taiwan and saw Chinese Philosophy practiced in action.  It had an effect on me.  The three teachings:  Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism.  And then you can add Neo-Confucianism and Mohism  to that.  Chinese Philosophy is awesome, and so practical.  The Chinese didn't get so transfixed by idealism as the Indian Philosophers did.  Even Taoism, as abstract as the theory is, is meant to be very practically applied in daily life.  And you see that when you travel to China and Taiwan, especially Taiiwan.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Emerald I feel that way about Leo's videos since I've watched them all, some multiple times.  And you are so on point, I totally need to take action now.  I pretty much have the theory wired now.  Everything else theory wise is just a luxury for me.  What I need to be doing is increasing awareness and taking action.  I need to be working on practical personal development now.  Hiding out in theory is an addiction and distraction, but it does help too.  I think I've got the bulk of the help that theory can give me now.  What I need to do now is actually optimize my schedule and actions to align with my life purpose, which I have already been doing.   Thanks for the reminder.  You are wise.

Thank you.  One thing that's helped me to take action on my goals is to work on what's called "Keystone Habits". Basically, you install one habit at a time for a couple months relating to diet, exercise, meditation, or sleep. Since these are very fundamental, they are good to focus on first because they'll have a ripple effect on other areas of your life. So, because habits get wired into your mind over the course of about 60 days, you want to focus primarily on one of these for 60 days per habit. After that, these things should become second nature. The main thing is not to overwhelm yourself with many habits at once. If you work on one habit at a time, it's like tearing a page. If you work on more than one habit at a time, it's like tearing many pages stacked together. It becomes a lot harder and you're more likely to be inconsistent.

[Emerald]

56 minutes ago, Fidelio said:

What it looked like you were saying is that you've reached the point of diminishing returns, and get bored because you "know everything" you are reading or watching. I was suggesting that perhaps if you have learned all you think you can from one source, that you try another.

And implementing the things you've learned goes far beyond diet and meditation. That is just a small part of it. From reading your posts it seems as if you are fully entrenched in the ego; your posts hint at affectation; like your ego thinks it is wiser than others, and even your occasional "modesty" seems forced. I also sense a lot of disingenuous ness from you. In fact I suspect me pointing this out that your ego will perceive it as an attack and circle the wagons.

I am definitely firmly entrenched in ego and my affectation comes from that. And "wise ego" and "modest ego" are both ego-identifications of mine. I'm just not at the point where I can let go of it. They're like security blankets. This is simply where I am at the moment. I'd like to be more honest if I could from where I am, but I'm already pushing myself to the maximum brink of how honest and thorough I can be about my experiences without having transcended the ego. But I've found that a high degree of default dishonesty is just a normal part of being an ego-identified person. 

But what I was saying in my post was that I have already learned everything from books, teachers, and videos that can possibly help me at this point. So, if at this point, I were to immerse myself in more teachings, it's only for the sake of distraction and creating another security blanket. Just like my activity on here is only for the sake of distraction and for creating another security blanket. My channel functions in largely the same way too, though I hope it's not a solely ego-driven pursuit.

My hope is that in diving into these things and seeing how unsatisfying they are, that I can actually manage to let go of these. However, some of these identifications came about for my childhood self to protect itself against trauma. So, there are identities that are harder to weed out because some parts of myself still need them as coping mechanisms to function. They are like crutches. If I kick them out from under myself before I'm ready, I will fall and hurt myself worse. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Fidelio Emerald is wiser than many others, that's pretty obvious.  That doesn't mean she is infallible.  But comparitively speaking, if the shoe fits she should wear it.  Hey, there is a knowledge differential among people. That's a fact.  Emerald is pretty wise for her age, would you not agree?   It seems like a lot of the spiritualists on here like to criticize knowing, yet they are just as beholden to views themselves.  At least she doesn't believe she knows everything while  pretending to know nothing.  That's what irks me.  Yeah, I say all this stuff, but I'm not spouting any truths.  Sure.  That's more problematic because it's intellectually dishonest in my opinion.  It's talking out of both sides of one's mouth.  That person thinks they know everything yet doesn't want to risk openly saying so.    And when you try to engage them in debate they flip the table over and laugh.  What's worse than that?  I value intellectual honesty.  And hey, she tries, does that mean she has to always be right?  Why hold a person to so high of a standard?  Out the picture I always say.  At least then we can have a good faith discussion and maybe learn something.  Am I wrong?

And what about your critique of Emerald and the tone of it?  You seem to be engaging in the same behavior you criticize her for.  You are standing in judgment presuming you are wiser than she is, are you not?  Like a parent shaking their head at a clueless child.  Do you see that?  Is that ego too?  See the irony?

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

@Emerald I response to your post to Fidelio -- don't be so modest and don't beat yourself up so much.  You don't have to do that.  Just friendly advice.  You gave me some great advice, now I return the favor.  I think you said somewhere that often we can see the blind-spots in others better than they can see them in themselves.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

Those are just labels that people use to describe certain aspects of our consciousness but if you allow me for a moment to set them aside to explore some of the various aspects it may help bring some clarity.

There are different parts of our brain that contribute to our conscious thought processes, the oldest has been called the lizard brain which provides our primitive instinctual urges and responses like the flight, fight and freeze response to a threat. Then there is the younger part of the brain that is responsible for our social and emotional bonding and responses which could be called the mammal brain. Then there is the youngest part of the brain that is responsible for what we call our rational mind.

Now these different parts don't operate in isolation or independently, they are an integrated system that produce all of the different urges, instincts, thoughts, feelings, conditioning and everything else that creates our experience and perception. Even our attachment to an identity is an accumulation of input from different parts to result in us identifying with our self. Much of this is involuntary actions that happen even to the point of us not being aware of some of it happening.  Our identifying is also involuntary, it's a natural expression of natural processes.

It seems like most people use monkey mind to refer to the way the brain works with the different parts together doing what they do and the resulting expression in our mind. While it appears they use ego for the identifying facet of the brain processes that produces the expression of identity.

So what people are reffing to with those two labels are really very much intertwined and I don't see any real value in seeking out specific defining parameters to fit them into separately because they are expressions of a whole that each individual may perceive differently.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Fidelio I use my real name and photo, so your hasty swipe that I am a fake account lacks foundation and is unreasonable.  It's also mean.  Is that ego too?  Think about it.

And whose fake account might I be?  I'm curious.  Got a notion to back up your snide conclusion? Who writes like me and talks like me on here?  Nobody I've seen yet.  

Not criticism you say?  You spiritualists are masters at denying reality.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's reasonable to assume it is a duck.  Heard that before?

Please let us know when you wake-up though, will you?  That's potentially interesting to me.  You should be focusing on your own awakening first, no?  How about you awaken and then come talk to us about that?

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Emerald]

28 minutes ago, Fidelio said:

I don't know everything you've learned, but it is clear you haven't learned everything that can help you. I'd suggest looking to sources outside of what you can find on the internet. If there is a Buddhist temple near you, you might find it immensely more helpful to interact with people on a face-to-face level. You've tried so hard and so long to escape the dungeon your ego has tricked you in believing you have to stay in, you deserve relief 

I still don't think that you understand what I mean. There's literally nothing that I can learn on the intellectual/knowledge level that will bring me any nearer to ego transcendence. Learning anything else would just be getting trapped in intellect and concepts and using them as a distraction, which is my main attachment and one of the primary foods of my ego. So, going to a Buddhist Temple would only help me if it were solely a practical endeavor based in unlearning and unconditional presence. Getting to know people face to face would just be another cul-de-sac and a way for me to run away from what is. Reading more books and watching more videos would like-wise be about running away from what is. So, there literally is nothing that I could learn right now that wouldn't hurt me. 

[nightrider1435]

 

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Fidelio I use my real name and photo, so your hasty swipe that I am a fake account lacks foundation and is unreasonable.  It's also mean.  Is that ego too?  Think about it.

And whose fake account might I be?  I'm curious.  Got a notion to back up your snide conclusion? Who the hell writes like me and talks like me on here?  Nobody I've seen yet.  

Not criticism you say?  You spiritualists are masters at denying reality.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's reasonable to assume it is a duck.  Heard that before?

Please let us know when you wake-up though, will you?  That's potentially interesting to me.  You should focus on that, no? 

Man... Just relax.. lol. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@nightrider1435 I am relaxed.  

Don't shoot the messenger.  Got anything substantive to add to my post?  I'm curious.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor