Reconciling Contradictory Information

[Sky]

Hi!

One of the most challenging aspects of personal development for me is trying to reconcile contradictory information. This seems to be especially prevalent in the domain of health.

For instance, there are studies which support a link between saturated fats and heart disease. But, there are also convincing studies which seem to prove just the opposite - that there is no such association. Saturated fats is just one example, but there are many others (gluten, dairy, all those specialty diets, etc...).

How is one supposed to navigate this maze and determine what is "best?" 

Thanks!

[Salaam]

Contradictory information, usually means that there is a dynamic in play that requires balancing and nuance. Without that balance and nuance, then things appear to contradict or swing from one extreme to another.

For both health and personal development (which of course includes health) you have to understand the context and application of each particular instance.

That's why this blind "accept everything", "everything is an illusion", no nuance, extremist bullshit is so limited and unhelpful in real life. You have to have nuance and specificity, so you understand context, and the right balancing action to apply.

It's not that things like saturated fats or fear are evil. It's about when and where to apply them and direct them so they are constructive and healthy when present.

[Nahm]

@Sky nothing is 'matter'. it's all beliefs.  

[Salaam]

@Nahm

I bet if someone took a hammer to your hands and broke your bones you'd feel different. And then if a doctor could reconstruct those very same bones so you could write and work and provide for your family you'd feel different.

The point being, arm-chair philosophy and emotional platitudes provide jack shit in benefit when it comes to dealing with real things in the real world.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Salaam

[Nahm]

@Salaam  I literally did have my left hand smashed, when I was 13 years old. I had an 8 hour surgery in which bone fragments were picked out of my hand and fake bones were put in. I had to wear a cast with pins holding my bones in place for almost 2 years.  I have a scar that runs from my thumb nail to my wrist. Decades later, I'm still playing 4 hour gigs on the guitar with that hand. It's all beliefs bro, there is no objective truth. The whole fucking charade is relative to YOU. 

All mystics, all scientists are telling you that when matter is deeply studied, there is nothing there. It is you who holds onto a limiting belief, not knowing all is belief. "Arm chair philosophy" is a belief of yours, not mine. Referring to an "illusion" is a belief of yours, not mine. There is no illusion. Your beliefs are all around you. 

"Real things" in "the real world" he says! At least try some shrooms!

[Salaam]

@Nahm

I've tried shrooms, didn't like them. Drug wise ecstasy was much better, don't need either of them now, because I can naturally create euphoria states that are much more pleasurable and healthier.

So be honest, when that actually happened at 13 did you feel relief, gratitude, appreciation when you gained full functioning of that hand? Do you recognize that it was the surgeon who put all that time and effort understanding the nuances specific to human biology that afforded you the regaining of that functioning? You didn't just take some mushrooms or change your beliefs and poof your hand was back to what it was.

It is not all "beliefs". Objective reality does exist and it has an impact on what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot access. "Beliefs" themselves are internalization's chemically coded with their own chemistry, their own degrees of attraction and repulsion and their degrees of resistance and acceptance. If your internal senses were sensitive enough and your brain processing was fast enough you would be able to feel and track those internalizations in real-time across multiple sub-conscious layers mapping out their inter-relations (that's how I have this information).

And no, not all mystics, scientists, etc. are saying nothing is there. In fact, what they say is that emptiness isn't there. Voids, vacuums, etc. are not actually empty. They are filled with all kinds of different fields, fields we can tangibly feel and use for our development if we're sensitive enough and can handle the connective tension.

[Nahm]

@Salaam Yes, of course I appreciate the Dr's efforts, and his belief in his abilities. I appreciate everything I possibly can, because I believe it draws more of the same. I appreciate your continuing this convo. Chemistry, human biology & your brain,  are all belief. Let's get right down to the bottom....can you give me an example of objective reality? 

***Disclaimer - I'm probably wrong, my excuse is that there's no way for me to know, because reality is subjective. 

[aurum]

@Sky

There is no "best". There is only what is useful for you right now.

Think of beliefs as tools to get you from point A to point B. That's all.

If a teacher speaks a truth and it resonates with you, good. Follow it.

If a teacher speaks a truth and it doesn't resonate with you, good. Don't follow it.

Now you're probably wondering "but how do I know what is useful right now"? That requires you to go inside and feel out the answer. What does your intuition say?

What you'll find is that many of these "contradictions" are not contradictions at all. You just didn't understand the full subtlety of what was being said and took things at face value. Other times you'll find that a certain belief just doesn't serve you at all anymore.

Keep learning. Keep going inside and listening to yourself. Embrace ambiguity and confusion as best you can.
 

[ajasatya]

@Sky learn how to feel your body and decide what works for you. be mindful of your body 24/7.

[Nahm]

@Sky All your cells respond to your thoughts. Beliefs are thoughts you keep repeating.  In the short term, notice how you feel physically after you eat different things. In the long term, start seeing healthy and foods that are bad for you will disappear.  Also, where do your thoughts end and your body / digestive track / stomach start? Nowhere. 

[Visitor]

6 hours ago, Sky said:

...How is one supposed to navigate this maze and determine what is "best?" 

The "best" is not necessarily so. Sometimes the best is a bit of rubbish which challenges your body and build up its immune system. A healthy immune system is vital. Eating only what does not harm the body will only atrophy the immune system. Which makes one vulnerable to the offenses of your defenses.

What is "best"? Variety and moderation.

[Salaam]

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Salaam Yes, of course I appreciate the Dr's efforts, and his belief in his abilities. I appreciate everything I possibly can, because I believe it draws more of the same. I appreciate your continuing this convo. Chemistry, human biology & your brain,  are all belief. Let's get right down to the bottom....can you give me an example of objective reality? 

***Disclaimer - I'm probably wrong, my excuse is that there's no way for me to know, because reality is subjective. 

Okay, if we want to get right down to the bottom, let's just cut to the chase in how this discussion or whatever will probably evolve. I've had it enough times on here with people to somewhat narrate the usual steps. It's most likely going to end up being we agree to disagree if it stays civil, or I'll somehow piss you off with the way I state things and it'll devolve and completely derail the thread

I "believe" the world exists beyond the observations of my mind, that there are actions you have to take, nuance you have to sense, and resistance you have to face to adapt, change, create synergy, gain influence and then exert influence. Just sitting there, believing whatever, thinking everything is nothing or an illusion, can impact your rapport with the world or how you relate to it, but it does little beyond that. We have to be more physical, active, and involve our senses as well as our mind in order to spur change within us and outside us.

Maybe you "believe" differently and will then say something like well prove it in some absolute sense. And then I'll say, static absolutes violate dynamic integrity via the uncertainty principle and also add that humans are overly attached to that paradigm because of an emotional extremism and rigidity of thought on an electromagnetic level (a mental tensile resiliency most people lack). All the proof I personally need is in it's consistent repeat-ability, stability, patterning, and the strength of change I create and success I enjoy by adapting and having the very tools to form and become whatever the hell I want in ways most of the world doesn't seem to have the same access to.

Basically, I've had way too much success and growth and experience validating my approach and view to give any credence to the philosophy of nothingness or the primacy of consciousness or whatever you want to call it. Most people on here are coming from a place of scarcity and the consciousness primacy stuff sounds great to them, compared to what they currently have, but I've got way too much personal abundance to find such a position attractive. I mean it's not like I'm just dismissing it out of hand. I've investigated it, but have out-grown it years ago, and moved on to even deeper and more real things (in my estimation and deep experience).

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Salaam

[Salaam]

14 hours ago, Visitor said:

The "best" is not necessarily so. Sometimes the best is a bit of rubbish which challenges your body and build up its immune system. A healthy immune system is vital. Eating only what does not harm the body will only atrophy the immune system. Which makes one vulnerable to the offenses of your defenses.

What is "best"? Variety and moderation.

You know what I've found to be most helpful, dynamic, and real when it comes to the concept of "best"? It's the concept of the goldilocks zone or life zone. The zone that has the degree and level of synergy to best support the particular context of human life and the planet earth. Personally, I take that concept of the goldilocks zone and apply it to my own body, creating a dynamic, ever-changing, tensile, but stable eco-system of synergy and harmony within myself that best supports and constructs the life I want. 

 

[Nahm]

@Salaam No worries man  It seems to me we are both getting along wonderfully in the world. I appreciate your insights, and the variety of ways we can all find our happiness, wether we call it working hard & getting rewarded, manifesting, getting lucky, progress, growth, opportunities, whatever. All just words we use to describe energies. I am curious, because you mentioned quantum physics...maybe you have an answer for something I have never been able to find....we both know that at the root, it's all energy....where does yours end and the world's begin?

[Sky]

Thank you, everyone! 

I appreciate your contributions and perspectives.

I wrote "best" in quotes because intuitively, I felt that it is rather subjective. Each side will defend their arguments and insist they are the "best" course of action.

One can be a vegan (and think of themselves as spiritual) and be so identified with this persona that any non-vegan is seen as a threat. I'm not defending or promoting any particular dietary lifestyle. I can see how getting in touch with one's body or intuition forms the basis of mindfulness. From that place, I think it is easier to identify which food nourishes your body.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Sky Hence the emphasis on radical openmindedness, mutliperspectivalism, holism, and studying many different sources.

And of course you gotta field-test all the theory to see what works for you. I've spent over 5 years trying out various diets. It's a lot of work.

The best diet seems to be live, raw, organic 100% plant-based. No meat, no dairy, no wheat, no starchy veggies like potatoes, no packaged foods, no sugary foods. Try it for 30 days and see how you feel. In this case, saturated fat is a non-issue. The problems with meat go way beyond saturated fat.

Nutrition science is still in its infancy. There are hundreds of variables, all over which are important to consider. But science does a poor job of dealing with many variables because it has a bias to slice and dice the issue. That's why we have all these contradictory diets. And people have different goals for their diets. Most people just wanna lose weight or get jacked. They aren't really concerned with optimizing health or consciousness.

[Socrates]

@Sky Saturated fats are unhealthy. If you research further the studies that "prove" the opposite they are either using a non-viable way of study or are supported economically by the meat and egg industry. You just go as deep as possible until you find the answer. The hard thing is to keep an unbiased attitude when doing the research which is the root cause of this misunderstanding. As far as feeling the diet I would agree on the surface but you may also going to need some blood tests before and after the diet change just to double check. 

[Salaam]

51 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Salaam No worries man  It seems to me we are both getting along wonderfully in the world. I appreciate your insights, and the variety of ways we can all find our happiness, wether we call it working hard & getting rewarded, manifesting, getting lucky, progress, growth, opportunities, whatever. All just words we use to describe energies. I am curious, because you mentioned quantum physics...maybe you have an answer for something I have never been able to find....we both know that at the root, it's all energy....where does yours end and the world's begin?

Cool, thanks for staying so civil amid the differences we may or may not be expressing

As to your question, first I would differentiate what you mean by end and begin. I personally don't believe in "hard" endings and beginnings, whereby it is believed that there is nothing before a beginning or after an ending. I believe in "soft" endings and beginnings which are transitions from one change to another via shifts in the orientation of energetic patterns across multiple levels, layers, and fields. Shifts in position, rather than absolute creation or destruction.

Second, I ascribe to superposition, where things can be overlapped or superimposed on top of each other and interact while still maintaining distinction. We can have difference or distinction without separation and further there are degrees of separation that also overlap and interact. A real life example would be a metal and a magnet, held close but apart. On one level they are separated with a physical distance between them, but on the field level, they are very much connected and interacting as is shown by the magnetic pull bringing them to snap and attach together. 

So with that said, I see my energy as a distinct, but connected part of the energetic mixture. I have localized emanations and the world has localized emanations that mix and interplay depending on a specific context. Some emanations have greater permeability and range then others and some orientations of energy have greater solidity, creating difference and greater potentiality via their interaction. 

Basically, in my view the initial frame of your question, has flaws in it's dynamics and flexibility that kind of "choke" you out of finding a solution that is both universal and specific without conflict (it's a very common flaw in much of humanities so called paradoxes). And that means that as humans we have to develop our inner capacities to be able to approach these questions with evolved forms of sensitivity and differentiation (to find subtle nuance), multi-dimensionality (so we are considering all the different layers and levels and fields), traction or self-restraint (so we can handle the tension of our question without immediately snapping and attaching to a limited conclusion), and a bunch of other things that would take longer to write out.

 

[Nahm]

@Salaam thanks again. Great read, but I can't find an answer in there. So far, in my experience, it doesn't seem that that are separations, other than beliefs. I look though, which seems to reinforce my belief to the contrary. After all, everything, me, you, all superposition. I think we have much more in common than not.  words, words, words.

[PetarKa]

@Leo Gura About your diet:

Where do you get carbohydrates from? Are all forms of carbs bad e.g. rice, oatmeal, corn, etc.?

Just curious. I eat a lot of carbs, I'm quite skinny. If I don't eat carbs as much I simply will not have enough energy for the day.