Humans = Animals ?

[TruthSeeker]

Whats the difference between animals and humans?

[thortho]

Do you you have any particular species in mind? Seeing as I consider human to be one species of animals, your question comes across like "What's the difference between animals and dogs?" - a bit too vague to properly answer, and in any case a biologist would be better qualified to give a sensible answer.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, TruthSeeker said:

Whats the difference between animals and humans?

Human beings have a dual nature. We have the higher nature of concepts and ideals and an instinctual animalistic nature. Animals only have the animalistic nature, speaking generally.

[Jan Odvarko]

25 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Human beings have a dual nature. We have the higher nature of concepts and ideals and an instinctual animalistic nature. Animals only have the animalistic nature, speaking generally.

It has occurred to me some time ago that animals might be permanently living in a state of enlightenment. Surely this isn't a new idea though (-:

Edited February 17, 2016 by Jan Odvarko

[Leo Gura]

Animals aren't lost in thoughts.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Jan Odvarko said:

It has occurred to me some time ago that animals might be permanently living in a state of enlightenment. Surely this isn't a new idea though (-:

Yes and no. They are free from the illusion of ego because they don't have the ability to create complex abstract concepts like we do. But they may not have the ability to be self-aware enough to realize their enlightenment.

[Jan Odvarko]

Just now, Emerald Wilkins said:

Yes and no. They are free from the illusion of ego because they don't have the ability to create complex abstract concepts like we do. But they may not have the ability to be self-aware enough to realize their enlightenment.

"self-aware to realize their enlightenment" See how oxymoronic it sounds? To be aware of self which doesn't exist in order to be able to realize their enlightenment. Then without self-awareness there can be no enlightenment.

This is a brilliant paradox, I like it!

[Guest]

Animals are reflections of you, just as we are to each other. 

[ayokolomo]

Humans fly airplanes, talk on the phone, build gardens, write poetry, paint, explain.  There is no limit, no boundary. 

[Rahul yadav]

Humans are privilege to find the truth whereas..animals cant

[TruthSeeker]

Can a animal willingly fast? If not, what is unique about a human that he can?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

Humans fly airplanes, talk on the phone, build gardens, write poetry, paint, explain.  There is no limit, no boundary. 

There is always a boundary. 

We are like spiders trying to climb the walls of an infinitely high bath tub, trying to find selfish meaning where it cannot be found.

Just because we can "do" more than animals does not discount their intrinsic value which all life has.

Do not dwell on the "success" of humans, for this is the work of the ego.

Edited February 17, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[ayokolomo]

11 minutes ago, tryingforfreedom said:

There is always a boundary. 

We are like spiders trying to climb the walls of an infinitely high bath tub, trying to find selfish meaning where it cannot be found.

Just because we can "do" more than animals does not discount their intrinsic value which all life has.

When my bulldog has a full belly he is content.  He lies on the floor, farts and falls asleep.

 When I have finished eating I have to find ways to express myself, then I have to think about a clean house by washing the dishes, put the dishes away, worry if I ate too much, consider changing my diet, think about whether I should run an extra mile to make up for that piece of chocolate cake I ate, yell at my son to take a shower.......

Value is somthing I created.  My son is more valuable to me than my dog. Because ultimately I am on "Team People"

Edited February 17, 2016 by ayokolomo

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ayokolomo said:

When my bulldog has a full belly he is content.  He lies on the floor, farts and falls asleep.

 When I have finished eating I have to find ways to express myself, then I have to think about a clean house by washing the dishes, put the dishes away, worry if I ate too much, consider changing my diet, think about whether I should run an extra mile to make up for that piece of chocolate cake I ate, yell at my son to take a shower.......

Value is somthing I created.  My son is more valuable to me than my dog. Because ultimately I am on "Team People"

That's not creating value though. You thinking you have to change you're diet is for what reason? Isn't it to fulfil your need to be look good to other people, or to ensure that you live a long life? Life is impermanent, and you shouldn't give a shit what others think of you. Yelling at your son to take a shower maybe to his benefit, but I'm sure he knows naturally by himself when to take a shower. Putting the dishes away is just a practicality, you have to do it like you have to eat to stay alive. It doesn't add value in itself.

Your dog, he can't do anymore than what he does, his actions are limited. But at least he doesn't engage in thinking that he is more important than he is, or that he is creating "value". There isn't anything such as creating value by the way. It is just a way for the ego to be like "hey look what I did!".

I'm not saying there isn't anything that maybe constituted as "adding value" to society or whatever. But the whole concept of applying "adding value" to the self and saying that you added value is a means to elevate the ego. Rather than see beings as an end in themselves. Once you do you action, don't look back and say "hey, I did pretty good"...because if you want to be free, all this does is encage you. There is only the will to see all beings as reflections of each other. There is only will to see that all appearances are empty. Do not give an inch to the ego. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[ayokolomo]

41 minutes ago, tryingforfreedom said:

That's not creating value though. You thinking you have to change you're diet is for what reason? Isn't it to fulfil your need to be look good to other people, or to ensure that you live a long life? Life is impermanent, and you shouldn't give a shit what others think of you. Yelling at your son to take a shower maybe to his benefit, but I'm sure he knows naturally by himself when to take a shower. Putting the dishes away is just a practicality, you have to do it like you have to eat to stay alive. It doesn't add value in itself.

Your dog, he can't do anymore than what he does, his actions are limited. But at least he doesn't engage in thinking that he is more important than he is, or that he is creating "value". There isn't anything such as creating value by the way. It is just a way for the ego to be like "hey look what I did!".

I'm not saying there isn't anything that maybe constituted as "adding value" to society or whatever. But the whole concept of applying "adding value" to the self and saying that you added value is a means to elevate the ego. Rather than see beings as an end in themselves. Once you do you action, don't look back and say "hey, I did pretty good"...because if you want to be free, all this does is encage you. There is only the will to see all beings as reflections of each other. There is only will to see that all appearances are empty. Do not give an inch to the ego. 

Okay lets play a game.  Cut off your little finger or cut a branch from a tree?  Is pain a difficulty?  No problem you can use shot of pain killer.  Easy choice?

Why?  Because there is value in your body, value that you created.  It is not some external force that creates this value.  You value it because you identify with your finger.  All value is created because we identify with what we value.

The trick is not only to recognize that it is only self created or just an illusion, and then negate it.  The trick is to see that you control the creation of value and so can use it as a tool to make life more pleasent.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ayokolomo said:

Okay lets play a game.  Cut off your little finger or cut a branch from a tree?  Is pain a difficulty?  No problem you can use shot of pain killer.  Easy choice?

Why?  Because there is value in your body, value that you created.  It is not some external force that creates this value.  You value it because you identify with your finger.  All value is created because we identify with what we value.

The trick is not only to recognize that it is only self created or just an illusion, and then negate it.  The trick is to see that you control the creation of value and so can use it as a tool to make life more pleasent.

Yes indeed. But we are talking about two different types of "value" here now, in my opinion. All life has value that is intrinsic to it, but that value is not of this world. It can't be found in appearances, form or identity. Therefore we would not want to cause unnecessary suffering by not using the pain killer.

What you essentially said in your previous post was that your dog creates less "value" than you(second meaning of value, not the one stated in the sentence above). The concept of "value" that you are talking about in that post is the value of action. I can do this, but my dog cannot do that, therefore I add value to the world, my dog doesn't add as much.  Which part of that thinking creates value? And is  it truly in recognition of the fact that the dogs range of actions and comprehension is vastly different to yours? Is it the dog's fault that it can't wash the dishes?

Edited February 17, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[ayokolomo]

10 minutes ago, tryingforfreedom said:

Yes indeed. But we are talking about two different types of "value" here now, in my opinion. All life has value that is intrinsic to it, but that value is not of this world. It can't be found in appearances, form or identity. Therefore we would not want to cause unnecessary suffering by not using the pain killer.

What you essentially said in your previous post was that your dog creates less "value" than you(second meaning of value, not the one stated in the sentence above). The concept of "value" that you are talking about in that post is the value of action. I can do this, but my dog cannot do that, therefore I add value to the world, my dog doesn't add as much.  Which part of that thinking creates value?

Why does life have intrinsic value?  Isnt that simply the illusion playing tricks on you?   You choose to cut your finger because you value your finger more than the branch.  Not because of some intrinsic value.  The tree will probably choose the branch over your finger, because it identifies with its appendage.

In 100 years from now you and everyone you know will be dead(or uploaded to skynet) and the world will be just fine.  Where is this external value that you write about?

My dog has no intrinsic value only the value that I have for him, or that I create for him.  The value is only a thought in my head.  A set of guidelines in how to best play the game.  

 It is the ego playing in the field of illusion, so lets play.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ayokolomo said:

Why does life have intrinsic value?  Isnt that simply the illusion playing tricks on you?   You choose to cut your finger because you value your finger more than the branch.  Not because of some intrinsic value.  The tree will probably choose the branch over your finger, because it identifies with its appendage.

In 100 years from now you and everyone you know will be dead(or uploaded to skynet) and the world will be just fine.  Where is this external value that you write about?

My dog has no intrinsic value only the value that I have for him, or that I create for him.  The value is only a thought in my head.  A set of guidelines in how to best play the game.  

 It is the ego playing in the field of illusion, so lets play.

Oh right..I see what you are saying about the finger and branch thing now...OK

If the concept of value doesn't exist, why are you even placing a value to your dog? You don't need your ego play the game at all. Like I said, it's not the dog's fault that it can't wash the dishes. If you can't see that, then I can't say anything more. 

[Neo]

7 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Yes and no. They are free from the illusion of ego because they don't have the ability to create complex abstract concepts like we do. But they may not have the ability to be self-aware enough to realize their enlightenment.

I'm not sure about this. My initial response to the question would be that the ego is extremely important to survival of the creature and probably runs right back to the smallest of brains.

[Pierre]

Humans have the immense privilege and power to botch up their lives!!! (Not to use the four-letter word...)