I'm Confused About Socializing

[Markus]

I think this is the first time I've legitimately asked for advice or input on this forum. My feelings about whether this will pay off are mixed - I may get genuinely insightful replies or some cliches from people who don't really know what they're talking about in practice. Why do I think many people on this forum give advice on stuff they shouldn't be giving advice about? Because I do it myself. It strokes my ego. It's quite human I think. Anyways.

I feel an urge to connect with other human beings. At least a part of it is trying to fill a void inside me - and I know it won't help do that, only connecting to being can. That said, I feel frustrated about the pettiness of human communication. We crack jokes, we play cards, we watch stupid shit on Youtube and giggle like idiots. Whenever I happen to be in a social situation involving a group of people, pretty much all interaction seems superficial and worthless. Genuine sharing of thought and emotion seems very rare, yet it's something I crave. All my best social moments have only involved one person besides myself. So I think making individual friends rather than chit-chatting in groups is a good strategic move for me. I have some questions in the next paragraphs.

Is the urge to connect with people on a deeper level just chasing something that can never be fulfilled? Is it just pure egotism to prefer or value "deep" conversation topics over small talk, humor and chit-chat? How do I go about pursuing deeper connections with people since basically everybody's built a wall of one height or another to hide their true personality? Is this pursuit worthwhile or am I better off accepting that socializing will always involve a large amount of bullshit and games?

It seems to me that all I really and truly want to do with other people is cuddle, fuck, and have honest, vulnerable interactions. Everything else - I'd rather be alone.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Markus

[Truth]

all those pleasures and socializing is just icing on the cake. besides that it's just a distraction from doing the inner work you gotta be doing. It feels superficial and worthless because it is. you pursue deeper connections because they're meaningful, have purpose, have value and that creates mutual benefits between two people and without that you mope, and label things as petty, superficial and worthless because it's true! and you choose to wallow in your own self pity. Don't be surprised when you chase the superficial stuff and find that it's not fulfilling you or finding out it's exactly that, superficial. You can't even enjoy the icing because you got the cake so shitty. 

Get the foundation down, all the inner work you gotta be doing and you'll find that the icing -- socializing, cracking jokes, playing cards and being playful is not worthless or superficial but actually the spice of life, literally. 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Truth

[Markus]

@Truth Which is exactly why I don't do much of it. But regardless, it seems like a crappy icing, much like video games. It's not horrible but at the same time, it doesn't really attract me because I think life has more enjoyable spices to offer, in addition to the cake of the inner work.

I enjoy playfulness and humor, and find that's one of the easier things I like about socializing. I think truly connecting with people is something everybody wants to do but is afraid to do, so most social interactions end up as small talk (if even that) and playing stupid games. With the people I occasionally hang out with, there's a lot of silence, watching videos and whatnot. Interestingly enough, staring silently at each other feels better than the talking, a lot of the time.

The issue for me is most of the time, we're not even communicating. We rarely talk about anything related to one another, even our interests. What's the point of being around people when it doesn't add anything enjoyable on top of being alone? I can sit by a camp fire, watch videos, eat, and take a sauna alone and be happier than when I'm doing it with others around. Because all they contribute is some nothing-saying drivel about stuff I can't even relate to.

[Truth]

Yeah you should definitely be spending most of your time doing meaningful things that align with your values. And when I say icing I just mostly mean sitting back and just being mostly. Like listening to music or watching an episode of your favorite show (not going on a full on marathon) or simply meditating, just sitting there and letting your thoughts spill out. 

And not everyone is really in the mood to make that connection, I find that when I can get in that mood to be playful and start to amuse myself I dont really care about any of that stuff. I just feel free. And that too is what I mean by having the cake down. The goal is that everything you do in your life is the icing on the cake no matter how mundane or pointless everything is.

No ones forcing you to hang out with people, just be honest with yourself and them, you're after something bigger, just expect to be alone more. And I think you should really question that desire to connect with people. I bet its grounded in some type of fear of loneliness because if it wasn't this issue wouldn't be popping up for you, you'd drop your friends realativley easy and realize you don't need anyone or anything external to fulfill you, your still using conditional happiness, your still too focused outward, focusing more on them than yourself. Truly face loneliness. I really think that could grow you the most. 

I think you should watch Leos new video on loneliness. Should help give you more insight into this issue

Edited June 18, 2017 by Truth

[Markus]

@Truth Thanks for the insightful reply. So much valuable stuff here.

I think people and physical discomfort are my two last major stumbling blocks. After 2 awakenings or at least glimpses, it's the deep-rooted stuff that still gets to me. I do have a fear of loneliness and abandonment, as well as an overwhelming need to be loved by someone. Thoughts keep telling me being alone somehow devalues things, even though many of my most joyful moments have been alone. I crave female attention due to self-esteem issues. All worth introspecting into. 

I spent 3 days at a friend's for his birthday and I think it gave me some valuable lessons. Self-expression is a pure joy when it comes unconditionally, without expecting any kind of reaction from others. Connection is about emotion rather than content. I spoke one-on-one with a friend of a friend who also has existential interests, he seems to be quite invested in a lot of spiritual make-believe so a lot of the stuff he said didn't make much sense to me. But I expressed myself and he did himself, and it was a beautiful few hours, as we were connecting. I felt free and uninhibited. Neither of us really cared if the other got or agreed with anything. Also, a lot of us have a tremendous fear of intimacy and vulnerability. That's why we talk about chicken shit, bull shit and elephant shit, as Fritz Perls put it. Intimacy is something we desire and fear at the same time. Also, a lot of people (I would emphasize my generation) have poor social skills in general.

The takeaways? I can only influence my own way of holding things. I could be more honest and vulnerable. I could express more curiosity. I could be a better listener. I could develop better social skills to pursue my preferred types of interacting with people. And accept the results. It is on me to express and pursue my desires and intentions with people. Nobody owes it to me to share themselves. It's on me. And If I don't click with someone, I gotta move on. Entertaining "What ifs" is bullshit. I've got to accept the consequences of having high standards. Looking for something authentic inevitably means weeding through a lot of people, cutting out a lot of people. Just a matter of psychological development in today's society - a lot of people don't really want honesty and intimacy as their ego can't handle it. But I intuit it's worth it.

Cheers.

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Markus

[Truth]

I'll tell you facing those fears in solitude, putting full awareness on it, re-framing them and taking the lessons will undoubtedly grow you the most. you have every answer to your problems already inside you, you just gotta spend some time in solitude to dig for them. Kind of exactly like you did here. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Truth

[Arkandeus]

the ego makes socializing feel very empty. 

imagine a dog wearing sunglasses, how awesome is that? 
imagine a dog getting drunk and telling weird stories? how fun would that be!
imagine a dog small chatting to you, talking about the weather, talking about the latest pop song?how awesome is that! 

 

I've noticed as I grew spirituality that I can see people as they are, they're amazing intelligent animals. everyone is incredibly interesting
why are bus drivers cool?  imagine a gorilla driving a bus, how awesome would that be? 
its the same, humans are animals, and everything they do is incredibly amazing. 
we are literally animals going on about wearing clothes, driving machinery, singing songs, we're so so so intelligent.
just the fact that you can communicate with someone is amazing, how amazing would it be if you could talk with your cat? 
thats how I feel when I talk to someone sometimes
''wow this creature understands me and I can talk to this creature, its mindblowing'''

before it was : ''oh this individual is averagely intelligent and not very interesting,how boring''

when the ego drops, you can see the world as it really is, amazingly interesting
no one was a fool,I was the fool, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so is intelligence

the ego makes everything uninteresting because it survives on standing above others, it is necessary for its survival to downplay the amazing side of other people. 
the less ego you have the more you can appreciate people. 
and I can say that people are infinitely amazing

Edited June 18, 2017 by Arkandeus

[Markus]

@Arkandeus Cool perspective to have. Essentially, I'm complaining about others' behavior (which I cannot change) and not taking full responsibility for my own actions towards others.

[everythingisnothing]

@Arkandeus Really feeling what you say, the projection of "free-will" onto others leaves room for malicious behaviour and destroys what reality actually is: peaceful. 

@Markus I like to think about these questions like this: Imagine you're totally depressed, your brain is not able to build serotonin-levels. So you're only left with pure fear. What would make you happy?

It's not a million dollars in a case, not a hot girl and not even a big social circle with friends you're deep with.

It's insight, deep wisdom. It will wash away your fear, your negative thoughts and relax your body. 

So I too think, that focusing on the inner work and gaining understanding on reality is more important, because it is not dependent of your mood and by that absolute.

Edited June 19, 2017 by everythingisnothing