Life Without Dopamine?

[harisankartj]

You know and i know that all of us love to get high on music,video games and some of us,drugs.

But as the sages and wise men tell,can meditation and contemplation really help one to never need ANY of this pleasures?

if its possible ,then DAMN THOSE SAGES ARE BADASS.

so the qn is .....IS IT POSSIBLE TO LIVE A LIFE WITHOUT DOPAMINE?

[HikiNEET]

On 09/06/2017 at 10:14 AM, harisankartj said:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO LIVE A LIFE WITHOUT DOPAMINE?

 

No. Every little action, even meditation, gives you dopamine. We need dopamine. Some say that the excess of dopamine is bad, but I am not really sure. You can easily find studies on the internet. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by HikiNEET

[harisankartj]

@HikiNEET But what about the thing called "spiritual purification"? Doesn't it mean purifying oneself of ALL NEEDS ?

 

[Nahm]

@harisankartj This should bring to mind that your purpose is happiness. If you remove it, there is no point remaining. 

[HikiNEET]

2 hours ago, harisankartj said:

@HikiNEET But what about the thing called "spiritual purification"? Doesn't it mean purifying oneself of ALL NEEDS ?

 

 

That's impossible. You still need to take a shit, drink water, eat and more. You are still living in the material world in a body. Needs are OK, the point is detaching from your needs but still doing it.

[harisankartj]

@HikiNEET Okay thanks for clearing that up mate.

@Nahm I guess that's one way of looking at it.

[harisankartj]

@Morrtiz

7 hours ago, Morrtiz said:

Which is what I think they mean in the old scriptures that it's mankind's privellage to become enligthtened.

 

Daaaaaamnnnn.....

[Joel3102]

Maybe Western culture is anti-spiritual because it's hooked on dopamine, and our dopamine receptors have been gradually desensitized over the years to where the present moment isn't pleasurable enough

[MiracleMan]

There is a tug of war between the limbic system and the prefrontal cortex when it comes to addiction.  The primitive limbic system can work against us when we get addicted to things that trigger dopamine.  The dopamine receptors become weak when we overload them with too much stuff: drugs, video games, porn, alcohol, gambling, food, etc.  The brain changes physically, the urge to resist becomes brutal, the prefrontal cortex tries to be rational and pulls one way:  to not act on the craving.  The limbic system pulls the other way, providing the powerful urge to take the hit or use their chosen substance.  We live in a society where we are encouraged to maximize pleasure, we have everything we want and more, its no wonder we have so much depression and anxiety in our society.  If you can stop the acting out, for at least 30 days or so, which is literally a mount Everest to a hardcore addict, the brain will heal, its very plastic.  

The neural pathways that quickly respond to triggers and what drives people to continue addictive behavior become weaker and weaker the more the user stops using.  Relapse is possible because you can always easily forge these pathways again, just by thinking about it over and over until you finally cave, then the pathways become stronger and stronger.  Dopamine receptors will heal over time when they aren't being bombarded by pleasure, then the everyday life won't be so agonizing, the user no longer has to use to feel "normal". 

Mindfulness is really the only cure we have for addiction, and it takes a lot of work to accomplish it, especially convincing the average addict that this is the case.  If we could give people a pill that would help out it would be amazing, but I'm afraid we just haven't come that far yet in medicine. 

Edited June 19, 2017 by MiracleMan

[harisankartj]

@MiracleMan So its impossible for a person to rest into that peaceful state and not have cravings for anything till his physical death?

Shouldn't then society as a whole focus only on mindfulness to get what they truly want ?

[Joel3102]

@MiracleMan Good explanation. This is why I want to do a lot of meditation retreats and feel the pain of sitting and doing nothing so I can overcome 21 years of toxic overstimulation lol.

[MiracleMan]

On 6/16/2017 at 10:12 AM, harisankartj said:

@HikiNEET But what about the thing called "spiritual purification"? Doesn't it mean purifying oneself of ALL NEEDS ?

 

Replace the word "NEEDS" with "WANTS" in your statement above and that is what I see as spiritual purification, Nirvana, enlightenment, liberation or whatever word you want to call it.  I think what you are confusing here is needs for wants.  What I think you are really getting at here is craving and grasping.  Liberation is freedom from wanting, craving, grasping.  It doesn't mean you'll never crave or want, it means you'll know how to deal with it.  Most people can't "deal" with it, we either suppress it or give in, we'd rather not ever notice it all.  But if we step back and notice it, name it, we can observe it from a distance and watch the craving ascend, peak, descend, and disentegrate into nothingness.  The craving always comes back though right?  Eventually I always give in, but I'm practicing this technique.  A cool quote for you bro:

“Those who enter the gates of heaven are not beings who have no passions or who have curbed the passions, but those who have cultivated an understanding of them.”  

Edited June 21, 2017 by MiracleMan

[TJ Reeves]

On June 9, 2017 at 6:14 AM, harisankartj said:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO LIVE A LIFE WITHOUT DOPAMINE?

Clinically, if you lacked dopamine you would begin to suffer from Parkinson's Disease.

"When approximately 60 to 80% of the dopamine-producing cells are damaged, and do not produce enough dopamine, the motor symptoms of Parkinson's disease appear. This process of impairment of brain cells is called neurodegeneration."

What I think you're proposing is that a) we have too much dopaminergic stimulation so b) what if we lowered it to the amount of stimulation experienced by indigenous/old-school/toned down people's?

We begin by looking at the effects of too much dopamine: desensitization

Basically, with an excess of dopamine, the body sends out more receptors to handle the stimulation. This makes our cells able to handle greater amounts of dopamine signaling.

This process also makes it more difficult for less or normal amounts of dopamine to achieve the same level of signaling. 

"Reduced sensitivity levels to various hormones and neurotransmitters have a variety of effects, but none of them are good.  Fat, depressed, bored, numb, anxious, irritable … the list goes on."

Videogames, chocolate, and love have been shown to trigger dopaminergic responses at the same level as cocaine. As such, one would go through similar withdrawal periods when giving those things up, as the brain may have to readjust its sensitivity levels. 

What happens when we wean our selves off?

Ideally, you would feel better off with less.

But this process is difficult. What most people do is substitute one addiction for another, deluding themselves into thinking that their new addiction is healthier. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by TJ Reeves

[harisankartj]

@MiracleMan  Woah dude that quote really explains itself. But really dejected that cravings will never go. i seem to fall into addictive thought patterns AGAIN and AGAIN . watching porn,social media,internet but nothing seems fulfilling. i better reconcile with the fact that i will never completely let go of cravings.

@TJ Reeves  Your explanation was really good and yeah what i thought was if this chasing of pleasure was the thing that's causing disappointment why cant we just forever let go of it.when you are addicted and you get a "hit" of whatever you are addicted it feels like just for a moment EVERYTHING in the universe is perfect but then i come down. i am just really afraid that feeling of "aaahhh... now i'm free,now there is nothing to worry about" is just an illusion.But as @MiracleMan said i guess u can only understand it and not give in to it.

[Siim Land]

Dopamine is supposed to motivate us to repeat evolutionarily beneficial behavior. However, it doesn't seem to take into account the minimal effective dosage. We're hoarders of calories, stimulation, possessions, security and pleasure. 

Given that the development of consciousness is the highest advancement of evolution, we should be hardwired to seek out experiences of awakening and enlightenment. This can explain why people tend to get into these sort of things more intensively after they've had experienced some of these things or when they take psychedelics. In this case, the dopamine rush is even transcending. 

Maybe I'm wrong about this entirely, but dopamine can have a much more beneficial role to play in the evolution of human consciousness than we give it credit for currently.

[harisankartj]

@Siim Land maybe im just demonizing dopamine instead of doing proper self inquiry and raise my consciousness...

Thanks for your comment.

Edited June 23, 2017 by harisankartj

[John Iverson]

Don't you get it? Meditation is something to balance everything... and enlightenment is something deeper that you couldn't imagine.... because we are not yet conscious for what we are and who we are.. there is ego blocked everything