Discipline Vs Impulse- Which Is Necessary?

[Progress]

[Learning what we want] Ever since I've become interested in personal development my self awareness and overall discipline has greatly increased. Yet it felt like the key decisions I made came with a truck of resistance. Like I've forced myself into a corner and the natural response was to free myself. It made me wonder how before I started this egocentric self development I could randomly stumble upon things and obsessively finish it so fervently, from books to videos to projects and to internet hobbies.

This natural ability never went away except when an activity came with a "You have to do this" mentality. It implied discipline, forced work, questionable motives, and loss of freedom. Many gurus and people in general would preach discipline and killing your comfort zone. I questioned if that was really "the way", If surrendering your natural tendencies to explore these little projects and things would lead to the greater good. Yet it was my interests in little projects and things that would sometimes ignite a blaze of progress. Should I go full on discipline? Perhaps allow my interests to manifest or do an odd combination of both.

The answer really came to me a few days ago in a book I was reading- The Bhagavad Gita, "Renounce the fruits to enjoy the fruits" was the overall message of a page or two. At least personally for me, everytime I do something without caring for what the end results is, the results but most of all the "work" is absolutely extraordinary. That or I utterly resist but usually for good reason- There was no reason for me to do it.

So for the next few days or so I decided I was going to run almost entirely on impulse. To allow the self to manifest itself. It seems impulse/intuition figures itself very well after some readjusting. The problem is our denial of our impulses and instead fighting it with a regulating ego. When you let your impulses spring out, the regulating ego's agenda soon becomes an impulse itself. The trick is to let yourself have "undesirable" impulses and consciously allow it to be. At some level you're denying these impulses, your innate intuition to be free, carefree and explorative. Of course, This is one of those theories you must swing the pendulum from polar opposites to have maximum results. For example someone new to Self-Actualization needs a stern disciplined routine for awhile before the values can seep in while someone past this point could use this method to naturally ride the currents to the values(Ironic considering the method is to let go of whether you will receive the values or not).

Edited June 9, 2017 by Progress

[Cjaryo]

@K VIL You could go from a lazy shit to instinctual master, although these two types of people run on different world views, making it difficult. The lazy shit believes that there is nothing they can do about life, and for that reason they are stuck. The instinctual master however believes that they have no control, and that the self will naturally gravitate towards what is best. The innocent mistake in Progress's post is that he used the word impulse, which has different meanings. Right now, to us, an impulse is for comfort, but for him, an impulse is for making the right decision. Another obstacle holding us back from being an instinctual master is comfort, and that we crave it as well as security. The method Progress proposed is that we free ourselves from comfort by self-discipline, and then, the right things to do become intuitive. For you to instantly transform into an instinctual master, I believe that you'd have to listen to or develop your intuition, and make actions with it.

[Progress]

@K VIL Not exactly harsh but stern discipline just to start say personal development which would eventually allow you to see your impulses otherwise you'd probably be stuck in your unconscious addictions. Then you allow your impulses to be your sails, "bad" or not- They will figure themselves out if you allow yourself to be fully conscious of them assuming you were already a self aware person of how your impulses were working and leading to results. Then if you say were to start a bussiness, you'd need to come up with at least a minimun set of discipline but that is only to fascilitate your impulses. 

[Progress]

@Cjaryo I mean impulse in both senses, Desire of any sort. I propose we back off from our unconscious impulses for a little bit in order to clear our minds and make the right decision. Then we re-engage in our impulses- good or bad but this time consciously. Allowing all the impulses to do what it wants to a great degree(obviously restraining from violence). Eventually our impulses to discipline and do "what we're suppose to do" flows out as that itself is an impulse. Previously our unconscious solution to impulse would be to deny either ends of the poles.

[Veggies]

On 9.6.2017 at 6:54 AM, Progress said:

I do something without caring for what the end results is, the results but most of all the "work" is absolutely extraordinary. That or I utterly resist but usually for good reason- There was no reason for me to do it.

Hey, @Progress. Before we discuss further, be kind and check your premises: You most certainly had a reason there.

Otherwise you wouldn't have done it in the first place.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Veggies make me FART

[Nahm]

@Progress @K VIL @Cjaryo @Progress @Veggies make me FART Isn't the concept / vibe / idea / feeling / of discipline counter productive to begin with? Help me understand this guys. Thanks. 

[Joseph Maynor]

I've totally gone away from the harsh-discipline approach.  I think I had to do it long enough in my life to realize that it didn't work for me.  I work 100% on positive motivation and I outline very clearly the mandatory adversity I have to face to implement my life purpose, and I try to actually relish taking that adversity because I know that that is what is causing my growth, and the reward of increase in my positive emotions and a decrease in my negative emotions.  When it comes to facing my mandatory adversity, I do use a kind of stern discipline when I have to, but I try to be loving when I do it.  Maybe like the way that a loving mother carefully disciplines an unruly child.  I find that self-love and patience and care for myself work much better than the harsh-discipline approach.  I am actually getting amazing results using this approach right now in my life.  It's kind of counter-intuitive, and I was paradigm-locked on the harsh-discipline theory myself for a long time.  It's paradoxical that the way to achieve self-control is not by use of force but by use of love.  But if you think about it, it all comes back to positive motivation being more sustainable than negative motivation.  

Edited June 10, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Progress]

@Veggies make me FART Yes the reason was I didn't believe in what I was doing, that is what is mean't by "no reason."

 

@Nahm It depends on what kind of person you are. Some people's go to answer for solving issues is disciple others is attaining a comfortable flow. Yes discipline I think is counter productive in the beginning, Its more of a rite of passage, The stage to figure out everything. I believe in early Personal Development, It is a way to stepback and realize what is wrong at least in the short term big picture(Ex: You realize you're laziness is causing issues is the short term big picture but why you are is the actual big picture).

 

@Joseph Maynor Yea this is one of those topics that is very unique for each journey and requires bouncing back and forth. I find life just pours onto my lap when I don't try to gain any end results. Although the paradox of that is without discipline I wouldn't of found out wether disciple or impulse was true for me. I was about to say without discipline I wouldn't of meditated but the way I work is if I surrounded myself with videos and books on it, I would've started playing with the fire. It wouldn't have gone far in the beginning but eventually I would end up naturally meditating in unorthodox time and methods.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Progress

[Nahm]

@Progress Makes total sense. Thanks.