Response To Leo's 2c-b Video

[dice]

@Leo Gura If physical death is the most beautiful thing, why not shooting in the head?

I don't get it.

Edited June 6, 2017 by dice

[Leo Gura]

@dice Indeed, you don't get it.

[abrakamowse]

@dice  That's what's called Spiritual Bypass.

Ego use the knowledge to continue being the one who runs the show.

[outlandish]

Leo Gura: serving up the finest trip reports on the internet!

[abrakamowse]

Spiritual bypass is a defense mechanism. Although the defense looks a lot prettier than other defenses, it serves the same purpose. Spiritual bypass shields us from the truth, it disconnects us from our feelings, and helps us avoid the big picture. It is more about checking out than checking in—and the difference is so subtle that we usually don't even know we are doing it.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-sobriety/201110/beware-spiritual-bypass

[AstralProjection]

1 hour ago, dice said:

@Leo Gura If physical death is the most beautiful thing, why not shooting in the head?

I don't get it.

My thought on this is that getting shot would just shatter you not only your mind but your conscious awareness and it won't be a pleasant experience in the last seconds of being here or when your consciousnesses phases out of this reality from a gun shot IMO you'll have to evolve as a shattered consciousness from that point on, so you'll never be the same again. 

But since Leo's consciousness in that experience has already phased him out of this physical reality then he just might have a peaceful death if he got shot at that moment. But who knows for sure.

[AstralProjection]

On a related note this is why I plan on ending my life in old age with a psychedelic and nembutal. It will be the most beautiful painless way to go. And it just might release me from the samsara the cycle of death and rebirth. And if not that it would likely release me from negative karma. The meditating religions of the world stress the importance of having a good peaceful death, so much so that some of them even recommend one commit suicide (Sallekhana among others) in order to prevent the body from gaining a ravaging disease and messing up their transition to the afterlife.

[Be Yourself]

@Leo Gura One question. If you fully died how come you remembered the experience? Wasn't the mind suppose to die too?

[Leo Gura]

@Be Yourself You have to change your definition of death.

From this:

• Death = the "physical" "body" stopping its functioning and stopping perception.

To this:

• Death = a realization you never existed in the first place. And it doesn't matter whether the body is working or not.

For example, if your entire life you believed you were your dog's body, and then one day you had a huge epiphany where you realized that your dog's body has nothing to do with you, you would say, "On that day, I died (being a dog)." Notice, this doesn't mean your dog's body had to die. The dog's body is irrelevant to this problem. (Please don't kill your dog.) The problem of death is one of false assumptions, NOT one of "a physical thing dying". << That is the false assumption! See?

You think death is physical. But in reality, not only is it not physical, it doesn't even exist! It's just an idea. You never were alive! Your death is literally a joke! You will laugh at it once you get to the other side. Assuming there is still a body capable of laughter If there isn't (because let's say you shot yourself in the head), then no laughing for you. So if you must kill yourself, choose a method that will allow you to appreciate the fully glory of after-death.

"Die before you die", as some wise master once said.

P.S. Imagine if you waited your whole life, till you were 90 years old, to have your first orgasm. You waited so long that you are lying on your deathbed, seconds from death, and only now you finally have your first orgasm, and just as it's about the reach it's peak -- the bestest part -- your brain shuts down and everything goes blank. Well... that's just poor planning right there

Except death is way better than all your best orgasms added up.

[AstralProjection]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From this:

Death = the "physical" "body" stopping its functioning and stopping perception.

To this:

Death = a realization you never existed in the first place. And it doesn't matter whether the body is working or not.

.........

You think death is physical. But in reality, not only is it not physical, it doesn't even exist! You never were alive! Your death is literally a joke!

Leo I am getting concerned that your getting a bit crazy. How do you define physical?

BTW in the astral projection community death is more known as permanently transitioning, or phasing to the afterlife where you can't come back to the same physical body because it can't support your spirit anymore and thus died. Leo I think you would do well studying aspects on death in near death experiences and astral projection. Your view of death was that of a psychedelic, most people don't physically die under the use of psychedelics. Love you regardless Leo.

[abrakamowse]

The idea that consciousness creates the illusion of a body, is not real very far away of what I am finding out. What do you thing @AstralProjection ?

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

Leo I am getting concerned that your getting a bit crazy. How do you define physical?

Yes, I used to have that concern myself

Physical is a concept you hold. Notice that you do hold it. You constructed it, with the help of society.

Don't get too hung up on astral projection. There are deeper things at work here.

[AstralProjection]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

The idea that consciousness creates the illusion of a body, is not real very far away of what I am finding out. What do you thing @AstralProjection ?

Yes I've heard of that years ago. But that happened billions of years ago during the big bang. We are past that already. If I want to reincarnate my spirit consciousness doesn't create my physical form. We have physical DNA tests for that. And DNA editing technology called CRISPR-Cas9.

Edited June 7, 2017 by AstralProjection

[AstralProjection]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I used to have that concern myself

Physical is a concept you hold. Notice that you do hold it. You constructed it, with the help of society.

@Leo Gura I am saying that the physical was created conceptually and subjectively billions of years ago and that it's also now objectively used. Is there something wrong with that? Can't they both exist conceptually and objectively at the same time? Certainly when we create something we conceptualize it and then build it. So yes both conceptive and objective creation is common. Am I missing anything?

[AstralProjection]

22 minutes ago, Outer said:

@Leo Gura @AstralProjection This is 101 spirituality, do you have blindfolds in front of your eyes? This is the death of the Ego, of you. The body in other points of location are You in relation to the universe which is you..

Out of everything Leo has said, ego death is not the craziest things. Ego death is actually quite common on psychedelics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

Loss of one's self is baby-ego-death, the brain signals real Death. By the way, work is done on N,N-DMT if it's neuroprotectant under conditions of low oxygen, that might be a reason for near death experiences. 

I know about ego death and I've experienced, though not as deep as Leo has.

And I am well aware of the potential of DMT in near death experiences.

I'm just having a hard time with some of the things Leo is saying on top of his ego death.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, AstralProjection said:

@Leo Gura I am saying that the physical was created conceptually and subjectively billions of years ago and that it's also now objectively used. Is there something wrong with that? Can't they both exist conceptually and objectively at the same time? Certainly when we create something we conceptualize it and then build it. So yes both conceptive and objective creation is common. Am I missing anything?

"Billions of years ago" is a concept! Time is a concept. Reality is a concept.

Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't seem that you are aware that those things are concepts. You speak as though you are aware, but only at the intellectual level. I don't think you're grasping the significance of this. What this means is: physical reality only exists because you say it does. It doesn't really. But since you think it does, it appears to you as though it does. This is Maya.

You could, for example, stop believing in it. And then your experience of life would change dramatically. Even though nothing will really change.

Conceptive vs objective is an arbitrary distinction you created. The True nature of reality isn't limited to that.

You're not yet grasping the depth of this whole thing. Reality is absolutely relative. Your very existence, and realty's very existence is relative.

[Erlend]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

For example, if your entire life you believed you were your dog's body, and then one day you had a huge epiphany where you realized that your dog's body has nothing to do with you, you would say, "On that day, I died (being a dog)." Notice, this doesn't mean your dog's body had to die. The dog's body is irrelevant to this problem. (Please don't kill your dog.) The problem of death is one of false assumptions, NOT one of "a physical thing dying". << That is the false assumption! See?

You think death is physical. But in reality, not only is it not physical, it doesn't even exist! It's just an idea. You never were alive! Your death is literally a joke! You will laugh at it once you get to the other side. Assuming there is still a body capable of laughter If there isn't (because let's say you shot yourself in the head), then no laughing for you. So if you must kill yourself, choose a method that will allow you to appreciate the fully glory of after-death.

I totally agree with you, Leo. But for the sake of communication I think using the word physical is mostly confusing.

Unless you deliberately say it that way because of all the things you said in your last insight post...

[Leo Gura]

@Erlend It's a shift in perspective. You have realize that your paradigm is backwards.

It really does feel like physical death. It's as significant from your point of view. I'm not interested in a doctor's point of view. Neither are you when you're laying there dying.

The whole problem here is that people are worried about the 3rd person perspective when they should be worried about the 1st person perspective. Because 3rd person perspectives are just imaginary. They aren't real.

Notice that all 3rd person perspectives are actually couched inside your 1st person perspective! So you're getting lost in concept.

[Paintballer]

While that is true. Some just can not accept that because it means all of their beliefs that give them a sense of security are false. That all their understanding bullshit. 

People want to add on to their knowledge instead of destroying the foundation of their world.

 

[Prabhaker]

15 hours ago, dice said:

If physical death is the most beautiful thing, why not shooting in the head?

Death is not ugly, death is beautiful. But death is beautiful only for those who have lived their life unhindered, uninhibited, unsuppressed. Death is beautiful only for those who have lived their life beautifully, who have not been afraid to live, who have been courageous to live – who loved, who danced, who celebrated.

Death becomes the ultimate celebration if your life is a celebration. Let me tell you in this way: whatsoever your life is, death reveals only that. If you have been miserable in life, death reveals misery. Death is a great revealer. If you have been happy in your life, death reveals happiness.

If a person lives his life without any fear, authentically, spontaneously, death will not create any fear in him, not at all. In fact, death will come as a great rest. Death will come as the ultimate flowering of life. He will be able to enjoy death too; he will be able to celebrate death too.

And remember, that is the criterion. If a person can enjoy and celebrate his death, that shows he has lived rightly; there is no other criterion. Your death will prove how you have lived.  Death is the culmination of life, the ultimate blossoming of life. In death the whole life is summed up, in death you arrive.

excerpts from  Osho talks

I have been in favor of euthanasia, that people after a certain age, if they feel that they don’t have any reason to live, should not be forced to commit suicide, but they should be provided in nursing homes or hospitals with at least one month of rest, a peaceful atmosphere and a help to meditation, care of their body by the doctors. And one month’s time so their friends can meet them, faraway people can come and see them, and they can learn how to be silent, how to be peaceful, how to die with awareness. That is not suicide.

Only one religion, Jainism, has accepted it for almost ten thousand years. They call it santhara. They don’t call it suicide. Santhara simply means a man has become ripe; just as a fruit becomes ripe and falls from a tree, a man has become ripe, has no need to live in the world. He has experienced all that the world provides and now to go on living seems to be unnecessarily troublesome for himself and for others.

He should be allowed to leave his body.

That is the only spiritual philosophy which gives euthanasia a validity.

And I also feel it is valid. It should be man’s birthright – but not that a young man wants to die because his girlfriend has gone with somebody else. That will not be enough for euthanasia. That simply means he has to find another girlfriend.

When there is no reason, no complaint, no grudge, no grumbling, if one is not against life, one simply finds that all that has to be lived has been lived – now what are you doing here?

Up to now society has been forcing such people to commit suicide, which is ugly. And the responsibility is of the society because the society does not provide proper means for a man to have a beautiful death.

I am in favor of beautifying everything – death included.

The Transmission of the Lamp ~ Osho