Response To Leo's 2c-b Video

[Dizzy]

11 hours ago, AstralProjection said:

I know about ego death and I've experienced, though not as deep as Leo has.

And I am well aware of the potential of DMT in near death experiences.

I'm just having a hard time with some of the things Leo is saying on top of his ego death.

Very interesting conversation going on here

@AstralProjection Psychedelics when used on the right setting and circumstances will allow our true nature to be clearly perceived.
That's what Leo has experienced

 

[abrakamowse]

@Leo Gura  At any point on the meditation did you lose all idea of your identity? to the point of don't knowing anything? 

All memories gone, etc...???

[AstralProjection]

14 hours ago, unknownworld said:

There is no such thing as "spirit", or "spirit consciousness". These are all egoic illusory concepts that you hold. Until you drop all concepts, beliefs, and experience the truth directly - you will never understand what LEO means.

I can agree with that because it just depends on how we define these terms. And I enjoy listening to Leo's psychedelic videos, because I've experienced ego death myself though not as deep as Leo has.

[AstralProjection]

7 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Very interesting conversation going on here

@AstralProjection Psychedelics when used on the right setting and circumstances will allow our true nature to be clearly perceived.
That's what Leo has experienced

I know, I love hearing Leo's psychedelic experiences.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

@Leo Gura  At any point on the meditation did you lose all idea of your identity? to the point of don't knowing anything? 

All memories gone, etc...???

It doesn't work like that. Memories don't need to be lost. Nothing needs to be lost. You just realize "you" aren't anything. Thoughts still arise, but they aren't seen as you.

[electroBeam]

@AstralProjection If you were born right now, what would you know and not know?

If you are completely honest with yourself, you would admit that you wouldn't know anything about the 'brain', 'time', 'space', 'birth', 'death'. and 1000000000000 other things too. 

You would just see a bunch of colours, sounds, feelings and sensations, and you wouldn't just assume that they came from senses, because you wouldn't know what senses are.

To figure out what you know and don't know, pretend you decide to teleport to a totally different universe, different laws of physics, different consciousness workings, etc. If a computer screen makes up the game GTA, then a totally different universe to GTA would be space invaders. Pretend a dude from GTA goes to space invaders, that's what its like to go to a different universe. EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT.

Now pretend that has happened to you, pretend that totally different universe, is the universe you're in.

What is actually going on? 

Where are sounds coming from? Hint: not from your ears, that is total bullshit. The sound feels like its coming from space/awareness if you are completely honest, if you pretend you were born right now!

But where?

From this framework, Leo isn't getting crazy, he's just getting honest. Its crazy to think that death is real hahahahaha

Edited June 7, 2017 by electroBeam

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't work like that. Memories don't need to be lost. Nothing needs to be lost. You just realize "you" aren't anything. Thoughts still arise, but they aren't seen as you.

Thanks @Leo Gura  I asked you because I had an experience where I didn't know who "I" was. The "I" I am referring is my ego, my lower self, memories, etc... because now I realize I was there (during that experience), only without memories, just awareness. But at the moment it was pretty scary. I thought I was having a problem in my "brain" Lol... I was completely blind thinking there was a "me" at this time. I always had an strong sense of me, my soul, my identity, etc... I think I needed a shock to begin to understand.

It was before I found out about actualized and I didn't know anything about meditation. I think that was one of the things that helped me to begin to search and investigate.

 

Thanks again!

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by abrakamowse

[Deep]

On 6/7/2017 at 3:27 AM, unknownworld said:

There is no such thing as "spirit", or "spirit consciousness". These are all egoic illusory concepts that you hold. Until you drop all concepts, beliefs, and experience the truth directly - you will never understand what LEO means.

I think you're the one who is holding onto concepts because you feel the need to correct people whenever they say spirit. You just have another type of ego that hates the ego. The ego has to be fully embraced before it can be dissolved. No spiritual teaching says you have to go against the ego. Maybe you should do more research on enlightenment and how to attain it. Be careful about believing everything Leo says, he's not enlightened. I don't think you understand what the ego truly is. Forgive me if I'm wrong. 

What difference does it make if people call it spirit/God/consciousness/infinity/void/Self? Our true nature is always going to remain the same, regardless of what words are used to describe it. Let them believe whatever they want. 

[AstralProjection]

On 6/7/2017 at 6:42 PM, electroBeam said:

@AstralProjection If you were born right now, what would you know and not know?

If you are completely honest with yourself, you would admit that you wouldn't know anything about the 'brain', 'time', 'space', 'birth', 'death'. and 1000000000000 other things too. 

You would just see a bunch of colours, sounds, feelings and sensations, and you wouldn't just assume that they came from senses, because you wouldn't know what senses are.

To figure out what you know and don't know, pretend you decide to teleport to a totally different universe, different laws of physics, different consciousness workings, etc. If a computer screen makes up the game GTA, then a totally different universe to GTA would be space invaders. Pretend a dude from GTA goes to space invaders, that's what its like to go to a different universe. EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT.

Now pretend that has happened to you, pretend that totally different universe, is the universe you're in.

What is actually going on? 

Where are sounds coming from? Hint: not from your ears, that is total bullshit. The sound feels like its coming from space/awareness if you are completely honest, if you pretend you were born right now!

But where?

From this framework, Leo isn't getting crazy, he's just getting honest. Its crazy to think that death is real hahahahaha

@electroBeam I agree, but the physical still exists in that things can be measured and shown to be consistent here unlike in the other dimensions. Each dimension should have it's own name and in this dimension we live in it's called the physical dimension. Even such things as genetics have been shown to be a very strong component in how our personalities develop. Now of course we can choose to phase out of this dimension and experience other dimensions, but those are other dimensions.

It's one thing to say it was like Leo died a physical death, it's another to claim that he actually died physically, because he's still alive. I guess one could compare it to a near death experience. But that is why they call it a near death experience and not a death experience.

[electroBeam]

@AstralProjection What is a measurement?

You do realize centimeters and inches are mental constructs right?

[AstralProjection]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

@AstralProjection What is a measurement?

You do realize centimeters and inches are mental constructs right?

You really don't get it. Yes they are mental constructs but they are also real and tangible and reliable ways of measuring. Why can't they be both a concept and a product, an objective thing.

Measurement -

the size, length, or amount of something, as established by measuring.

a unit or system of measuring.

[electroBeam]

@AstralProjection contemplate for a whole day on what measurement is, and see if you believe the same thing

[AstralProjection]

35 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@AstralProjection contemplate for a whole day on what measurement is, and see if you believe the same thing

@electroBeam If I say to myself I am going to create a table that is 5 feet long then I go and cut the wood and create a table that is 5 feet long then the table is both subjective/conceptively and objectively 5 feet long. Now the key is to realize that there is a distinctive difference between these two. That if I create the table in my head, that is different than physically creating a table in the objective. Similarly if someone else creates something so extra ordinary I don't know about then it doesn't exist conceptively in my mind.

[electroBeam]

@AstralProjection you just made 1 billion assumptions, and justified this magical 'distinction' using those 1 billion assumptions.

Contemplate, then come back to this forum.

[AstralProjection]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

@AstralProjection you just made 1 billion assumptions, and justified this magical 'distinction' using those 1 billion assumptions.

Contemplate, then come back to this forum.

That is just an easy way out of not being able to express and convey your thoughts.

[electroBeam]

15 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

the table is both subjective/conceptively and objectively 5 feet long

can you see 5 feet long using only your visual field? If not your making BS up and believing in your own BS.

And don't think getting a random plank, with a bunch of lines on it justifies 5 feet long as something real. A bunch of lines put together is no real than a word.

16 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

if I create the table in my head, that is different than physically creating a table in the objective

Evidence???? Who says there even is an objective? Whatever the fuck that is. First real major assumption: There's a difference between what's in your head and what's in the 'external world' Youre assuming there is an external world in the first place.

18 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

then it doesn't exist conceptively in my mind

Who says other people are creating thoughts in their head when you look at them? Are players in GTA creating thoughts in their head as well when you look at them? Or are you smart enough to realize that a mind, person, body are all concepts in your head, and what you're really looking at is god, and god only?

 

Your question here isn't about measurement or the physical universe, its about consistency. Heaps of people on this forum have already asked it, confused as hell as to how the world can be so consistent. The fact of the matter is, there is an answer to your question, but you need to contemplate on it for at least a week. No one on here can give you the answer you want. Its not conceptual.

[AstralProjection]

25 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

can you see 5 feet long using only your visual field? If not your making BS up and believing in your own BS.

And don't think getting a random plank, with a bunch of lines on it justifies 5 feet long as something real. A bunch of lines put together is no real than a word.

Evidence???? Who says there even is an objective? Whatever the fuck that is. First real major assumption: There's a difference between what's in your head and what's in the 'external world' Youre assuming there is an external world in the first place.

Who says other people are creating thoughts in their head when you look at them? Are players in GTA creating thoughts in their head as well when you look at them? Or are you smart enough to realize that a mind, person, body are all concepts in your head, and what you're really looking at is god, and god only?

 

Your question here isn't about measurement or the physical universe, its about consistency. Heaps of people on this forum have already asked it, confused as hell as to how the world can be so consistent. The fact of the matter is, there is an answer to your question, but you need to contemplate on it for at least a week. No one on here can give you the answer you want. Its not conceptual.

You id as well say "everything is God. It's all the same, it's all just God." But that doesn't really help us understand the world. I could ask "what is the sun?" "oh it's God." "What is the moon?" "Oh it's God." I agree in a way we are living a concept, but that concept has also turned into objective reality only because we as a collective have "phased" into this physical reality/dimension and became aware of it, giving life to it. But this reality is still less real than than ultimate reality. Shit I think I see what your saying. LOL

[electroBeam]

56 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

But that doesn't really help us understand the world

Say someone, a random hunter from Argentina, wants to see a Lamborghini for real. You could draw the Lamborghini on a piece of paper, from all different angles, with different shades and colours. You could even take a real picture of it.

But that will never be that same as seeing a Lamborghini in reality. In reality its in your awareness, produced on a slate of consciousness. The Lamborghini in the drawing you made is made of pencil colours and ink, produced on a paper slate. 

And the argentinian will never understand what its like to see a real lamborghini in real life just from your drawing, because the actual material's properties are just not the same as a real lamborghini. The pencil and ink, and paper fundamentally are limited in what they can show you.

Concepts are like the paper and pencil. Its fundamentally limited, by its pure essence. You can produce whatever concept you want for why we have measurement, and it will bring you no closer to understanding the truth. Because concept is the problem here.

Anyway the reason why you have to contemplate this question, is because there isn't even a conceptual explanation for what you are asking, even if you are ok with concepts. You're pretty much asking "Why does a picture of a lamborghini kind of look like a real lamborghini?"

What drawing is going to give you the answer to that?

I'm not saying everything is god -> that's just another concept. See you're looking for a concept and interpreting my answer as a conceptual answer. My answer isn't. My answer is a calling you to go on an adventure within yourself. Its a message saying there is a princess needing saving out in the darkest areas of the woods.

Edited June 11, 2017 by electroBeam

[Mondsee]

On 2017-6-6 at 7:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

You have to change your definition of death.

From this:

• Death = the "physical" "body" stopping its functioning and stopping perception.

To this:

• Death = a realization you never existed in the first place. And it doesn't matter whether the body is working or not.

(Note: I haven't watched Leo's 2c-b video, nor have I ever tried any type of psychdelics, but I got really interested in what Leo is suggesting here.)

Ok, so my main question is, if while we're alive (what we normally understand for being alive, that is) we don't manage to get enlightened, then when we die, we (our mortal sense of "we") will simply dissapear forever, and if we do manage to get enlightened our bodies will phisically die, but consciousness will be conscious that it is still there, that actually nothing changed.

It's like, if I die today (definitely unenlightened), then... my ego completely shuts off and it doesn't have the opportunity any longer for noticing that it was a total lie. It died believeng it existed! So in my case consciousness won't be conscious that it is still there... right?

Or is enlightenment just a cool thing to notice whle you're alive, but after we die, ist's the same if you were enlightened or not, because everyone becomes nothingness anyways?

On 2017-6-6 at 7:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

So if you must kill yourself, choose a method that will allow you to appreciate the fully glory of after-death.

"Die before you die", as some wise master once said.

This is what really got me thinking. Do you mean by this, if you must kill yourself, then choose the method of becoming enlightened so that you can appreciate (while you're still alive) the fully glory after-death?? "get enlightened before you die", as some wise master once said????

On 2017-6-6 at 7:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

P.S. Imagine if you waited your whole life, till you were 90 years old, to have your first orgasm. You waited so long that you are lying on your deathbed, seconds from death, and only now you finally have your first orgasm, and just as it's about the reach it's peak -- the bestest part -- your brain shuts down and everything goes blank. Well... that's just poor planning right there

Except death is way better than all your best orgasms added up.

Finally, in this example that old man starting to have an orgasm on his deathbed at least in his last moments he started appreciating that something cool as an orgasm existed, but... what are the odds of that happening? Like if you don't start working hard on achieving enlightenment soon enough, it's very unlikely to happen magically on your deathbed just like that, don't you think? That old man is much more likely to die not knowing of orgasms, or in other words, he is much more likely to die thinking he is actually dying forever. Bam! gone, and he really is gone, because all there was, was an unconscious ego who is dissapearing.

I think about this because my grandfather recently died (91 y/o just in case you were interested) and as he was lying on his death bed, I would sit next to him and think... how the fuck do I let him understand that he is not going to die! he isn't going anywhere because he doesn't exist!!! And as weak as he was, just lying there, suffering, I also thought how sad it was that it was impossible to get him enlightened at that point. Some day I really thought of telling him, but then I just thought silence would make more sense for him at that point.

 

Ok that was a very long and confusing post, I hope you can make some sense out of it.