Why Aren't Teachings More Clear?

[Afonso]

Doesn't it bother you?

All these dorky Indians on Youtube talking and talking and talking, yet they don't give you actual practices to realize Truth!

Advice like "live with your heart", "know the Infinite". Yeah, they all sound great but what good use do they have?

And then people smile and love these people for no apparent good reason.

What the fuck?

I'm angry.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Afonso

[Prabhaker]

@Afonso If you want road-maps you will have to go to the churches and to the priests - they have. 

Buddha's last message to his disciples was "App Deepo Bhava", meaning "be a light unto yourself". Do not follow others, do not imitate, because imitation, following, creates stupidity. You are born with a tremendous possibility of intelligence. You are born with a light within you. Listen to the still, small voice within, and that will guide you. Nobody else can guide you, nobody else can become a model for your life, because you are unique. Nobody has there been ever who was exactly like you, and nobody is ever going to be there again who will be exactly like you. 

The real master creates masters, not followers. The real master throws you back to yourself. His whole effort is to make you independent of him, because you have been dependent for centuries, and it has not led you anywhere. You still continue to stumble in the dark night of the soul.

A Buddha has not to be followed but understood. A Buddha has not to be imitated but listened to -- listened to in tremendous silence, love, trust. And the more you understand a Buddha, the more you will feel he is speaking not from the outside but from within, from the very core of your being. He is a mirror who reflects your original face -- but he is only a mirror. All great masters are mirrors, they reflect your original face. But don't cling to the mirror. The mirror is not your face!

[AstralProjection]

1 hour ago, Prabhaker said:

Do not follow others, do not imitate, because imitation, following, creates stupidity.

I wouldn't go that far. When newbies first start out they need to imitate, they need someone to follow like a mentor. Like a parent that helps their child grow up and learn the rules and the ropes of the world. But eventually yes the child must take off the training wheels and do it themselves, but in the meantime there is a place for training wheels.

To be honest I would be totally lost if it wasn't for the spiritual leaders out there that I've learned from. I think the key would be to not just have one mentor, but many. Because some mentors are blind to other truths. So in order to have a health variety of spiritual truths it's a good idea to have many sources for spiritual insight. And take what works and leave the rest.

1 hour ago, Afonso said:

Doesn't it bother you?

All these dorky Indians on Youtube talking and talking and talking, yet they don't give you actual practices to realize Truth!

Advice like "live with your heart", "know the Infinite". Yeah, they all sound great but what good use do they have?

And then people smile and love these people for no apparent good reason.

What the fuck?

I'm angry.

I think your looking in the wrong places. I think you need to go to people that specifically teach what your looking for. Don't be afraid to put down some money on a good book or DVD set. Or just use the library if you can't afford it. Learn to Google specific teachings like how to do samatha meditation or something like that.

Here you can start out with this as a general guideline. (Note I don't think everything in this movie is correct, but it's generally on track.)

Spiritual Reality - The Journey Within (Power of Meditation) [Full Movie]

Good luck Afonso.

[Prabhaker]

3 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

When newbies first start out they need to imitate, they need someone to follow like a mentor.

There are people who are ready to become mentor. Finding a real master is very difficult.

A false master is a consolation, he gives you peace as you are, he never bothers to change you -- he is a tranquilizer. You come to him and he consoles. Even if a real master consoles you, that consolation is just like a fishing net. You will be caught in the consolation and then, by and by, he will create the chaos. You have to pass through the chaos, because as you are you are absolutely wrong.

[AstralProjection]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

There are people who are ready to become mentor. Finding a real master is very difficult.

A false master is a consolation, he gives you peace as you are, he never bothers to change you -- he is a tranquilizer. You come to him and he consoles. Even if a real master consoles you, that consolation is just like a fishing net. You will be caught in the consolation and then, by and by, he will create the chaos. You have to pass through the chaos, because as you are you are absolutely wrong.

I just don't agree with this notion that we don't need masters, and teachers. And that we are the path. Yes is theory this is correct, but in practice it's much much much easier to learn from someone that has already been there done that.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, AstralProjection said:

I just don't agree with this notion that we don't need masters, and teachers.

We need masters and teachers but a master has not to be imitated but understood. If you copy a Jesus, memorize his teachings, pray like him - you will not become a Jesus, by imitating you can become a Christian but not a Christ.

[Natasha]

2 hours ago, Afonso said:

Doesn't it bother you?

All these dorky Indians on Youtube talking and talking and talking, yet they don't give you actual practices to realize Truth!

Advice like "live with your heart", "know the Infinite". Yeah, they all sound great but what good use do they have?

And then people smile and love these people for no apparent good reason.

What the fuck?

I'm angry.

I like a no-bs pragmatic cut' dry kind of approach to teaching. Flowery words with poetic undertone have never resonated with me. Language doesn't have complete ability to express/describe one's knowing. So people do what they can to communicate it, including the use of metaphors, adjectives, etc. Teachers who use straightforward method of communication are often misunderstood, but they are the ones who will help you cut through all the flowery stuff and right to the core of the matter. You just have to be open to it. 

[AstralProjection]

1 minute ago, Prabhaker said:

We need masters and teachers but a master has not to be imitated but understood. If you copy a Jesus, memorize his teachings, pray like him - you will not become a Jesus, by imitating you can become a Christian but not a Christ.

In memorizing what Jesus says, and praying like him we don't become Jesus of course, but we are one step closer to going down the path he has taken. But yes I agree that in the end we must learn to be our own path. But that takes time and so in the meantime we must learn, memorize, and imitate the masters. Just like training wheels.

[Nahm]

@Afonso Clarity is not a property of information, it's a property of the observer (you). If you want the teachings to become clearer, you must increase your clarity. You are the one collapsing the wave, it can only be relative to you. 

[zazed]

i can give you clarity.

Everything anyone can teach you, can be simple condensed:
"You are"

That is it, end of teaching, if you understand this one phrase deeply, you are enlightened.

Or watch a similar no bullshit guy, spend about 40m of non bullshit description:

 

 

[Toby]

There are enough teachings that are very very clear. But over 95% - imo - is bs. Nothing to complain about.

[Natasha]

36 minutes ago, zazed said:

i can give you clarity.

Everything anyone can teach you, can be simple condensed:
"You are"

That's what Leo was also telling in today's video describing his death experience... when the body-mind melts away, all there's left in eternity is 'I Am'. 

[cetus]

It's the flowers fragrance and color that spreads it's pollen.

[SOUL]

There are different reasons why:

Blind leading the blind

Clarity doesn't create repeat customers

Complicated mind thinks it needs it complicated

Not really want to be, just wants to appear to be

Attention whoring ego

 

 

[abrakamowse]

@Afonso  It's not that the teachers aren't clear is that we can't see truth even if it is in front of our noses.

It takes time and repetition, repetition and repetition for us to begin to understand a bit what they are pointing at.

 

[Prabhaker]

On 6/4/2017 at 9:34 PM, Natasha said:

Flowery words with poetic undertone have never resonated with me.

That which can be said can be said through prose. How will you say that which cannot be said if you don't have poetry? It is the language of what cannot really be said, that language that you speak so as not to have to be completely silent, the language of emotion and ecstasy.

THESE SMALL POEMS OF IKKYU may not be very poetic - in fact, R. H. Blyth, writing about these DOKA of Ikkyu, says: "Ikkyu's little poems are not of great poetical value, yet they portray for us a man of deep sincerity, too honest perhaps to be a great Lyrical poet." The purpose is not poetry. The purpose is to convey something which cannot be conveyed through ordinary language. The poetry is being used as a vehicle, remember it. Don't think in terms of literature: think in terms of ecstasy.

Take it easy ~ Vol 1 ~ Osho

You can find in Buddha's utterances, poetry—bound to be there. Many times while Buddha is expressing himself, he becomes poetic. The realm of ecstasy, the realm of ultimate knowing, is so beautiful, the temptation is so much to become poetic, the beauty is such, the benediction is such, the bliss is such, one starts talking in poetic language.

But Patanjali resists that. It is very difficult. No one has been able to resist. Jesus, Krishna, Buddha they all become poetic. The splendor, the beauty, when it explodes within you, you will start dancing, you will start singing. In that state you are just like a lover who has fallen in love with the whole universe.

Yoga: The Alpha and the Omega ~ Osho

Whenever an enlightened person speaks, whatsoever he speaks is poetry and beautiful. Just the way he is, whatsoever comes out of him resounds him, carries him, the fragrance. But that is not to the point. Don’t be lost in the poetry, because poetry belongs to the form and the truth is formless. The way Sosan says things is beautiful and poetic, but remember, don’t be lost in his poetry. Don’t be lost in the poetry of the Upanishads, of the Gita, of the sayings of Jesus. In itself the form is beautiful but that is not to the point. Move into what the content is, not the container.

Hsin Hsin Ming: The Book of Nothing ~ Osho

Only poetry can give a few glimpses of the unknown.It is said that wherever Buddha moved, trees would start blooming out of season. Now, this is poetry, pure poetry; it did not happen as a fact. But this shows something; there is no other way to say it. It says whenever Buddha is contacted, even trees start blooming out of season — so what to say about man?

[Paintballer]

Teachings are unclear because the are filtered down versions of a truth that can not be filtered down.

[Prabhaker]

On 6/4/2017 at 7:10 PM, Afonso said:

All these dorky Indians on Youtube talking and talking and talking, yet they don't give you actual practices to realize Truth!

OSHO: Baby, My Whole Work Is to Confuse You

 

 

[Prabhaker]

On 6/4/2017 at 7:10 PM, Afonso said:

What the fuck?

A Buddha is bound to be misunderstood. If a Buddha is not misunderstood then he is not a Buddha at all. Why is it so? - because the Buddha lives in a state which is beyond mind, and we live in minds. To translate something from the beyond to the mind is the most impossible thing in the world. It can′t be done, although every Buddha has tried to do it. That too is inevitable; no Buddha can avoid it.

The Buddha has to say the unsayable, he has to express the inexpressible, he has to define the indefinable. He has to do this absurd act, because the moment he reaches beyond the mind great compassion arises. He can see people stumbling in the dark, he can see people suffering unnecessarily - creating their own nightmares, creating their own hell and drowning in their own created hells. How can he avoid feeling compassion?

And the moment compassion arises he wants to communicate to them that this is your own doing, that you can get out of it; that there is a way out of it, that there is a state beyond it; that life is not what you think it is - your thinking about life is just like the thinking of a blind man about light. The blind man can go on thinking about light, but he will never be able to come to a true conclusion. His conclusions may be very logical, but still they will miss the experience. Light is an experience; you don′t need logic for it - what you need is eyes.

Buddha has eyes - and eyes are attained only when you have gone beyond the mind, when you have become a witness of the mind, when you have attained to a higher state than psychology; when you know that you are not your thoughts, not your body, when you know that you are only knowing - the energy that reflects, the energy that is capable of seeing: that you are pure seeing.

When this moment arrives, great compassion happens. Buddha has said that those who know are bound to feel compassion for those who don′t know. They start trying to help. And the first thing that has to be done is to communicate to people who are blind that eyes are possible, that you are not really blind but only keeping your eyes closed. You can open your eyes. You are not born blind, you have only been taught to remain blind.

Buddha speaks from the hilltop and you live in the dark valleys where light never reaches. He talks in words of light; by the time they reach you their meaning changes. By the time your mind catches hold of them it colors them in its own color.

It is not only so about Buddhas - even ordinary communication seems to be impossible. The husband cannot communicate with his wife, the parents cannot communicate with their children, the teachers cannot communicate with their students. What to say about Buddhas? People who exist on the same level, even they cannot communicate, because words are tricky things. You say one thing, but the moment it reaches the other person then it is in his power how to interpret it.

Ordinary communication, very mundane communication, even in the marketplace, is difficult. And a Buddha wants to communicate to you something which he has found in a state of no-mind, which he has found when all thoughts disappear, which he has found when even he himself is no more - when the ego evaporates, when there is utter silence, absolute peace, the sky is without clouds.

Now how to bring this infinite experience into words? No word is adequate enough - hence the misunderstanding.

It is absolutely inevitable that a Buddha will always be misunderstood. Only those few people can understand a Buddha who are disciples and devotees.

By disciple is meant one who has put aside all his prejudices, one who has put aside all his thoughts, and is ready to listen - not to his own mind and his mind′s interpretations, but to the words of Buddha; who is not in a state of argument with the Buddha, who is not inside thinking about what Buddha is saying, who listens to a Buddha as you listen to classical music, who listens to a Buddha as you listen to the sound of running water, who listens to Buddha as you listen to the wind passing through the pine trees or the cuckoo calling from the distance. That is the state of a disciple, or if you rise a little higher and become a devotee...

A devotee is one who has not only dropped his mind but has brought his heart in, who listens from the heart - not from logic but from love. The disciple is on the way to being a devotee. The disciple is the beginning of being a devotee, and the devotee is the fulfillment of being a disciple.
Only these few people understand a Buddha. And in understanding a Buddha they are transformed, transported into another world - the world of liberation, nirvana, light, love, benediction.

(Osho - Be Still and Know #2)

[Shin]

Because if teachings were clear as fuck, they would tell you that you have to die.

Have you ever heard from a teacher that you have to die ?

Edited June 6, 2017 by Shin