The Collective Dream Is A Nightmare

[Echoes]

The collective dream that we are living on a rock called "earth" in the era of the 21st century in modern, industrial/materialist society is a self-reinforcing nightmare. I wonder if this is what the buddhists mean when they say there are certain hell-realm bardos. Maybe the dream of "humanity in the 21st century" is an available bardo/reality that is always existent in the sphere of infinity and eternity, waiting to hypnotize beings with the dream of thoughts. But is also already completely free of it, because actually there are no problems in presence. 

Just a game of "How deep can we fall into darkness and seperation and still find the way back to love?" 

"But what with suffering?" stop believing in time and self created stories

"But what with starving children in africa?" stop believing that they actually exist

"But what with all the things wrong in society?" stop believing that culture has any reality

"But.." just stop and look what's actually reality and what's a self created story. The world is self-created. How can it be real?

Watching news from the year 2017 and 1843 makes no difference right? neither has more reality than the other.

 I'm not sure what would benefit the  coexisting beings the most: Stop dreaming altogether or re-dreaming the collective consciousness with a more positive and loving projection? But ultimately positive and loving thoughts also have no reality...  It seems that some  dreaming is necessary though for interaction, atleast in this developmental stage of communication and interaction.

[How to be wise]

Are those insights that you had.

or are they thoughts that you just thought up

or did you get it from a book or a person?

 

just curious...

Edited June 1, 2017 by How to be wise

[Echoes]

@How to be wise well, a combination of all those of course  

Isn't this the case for most of the stuff here? First you hear about it from some source, then you think/contemplate about it and other stuff on the topic and the implications it has, and eventually insights happen or not.

[Leo Gura]

@Echoes It's not a nightmare. It's a work of high art if your mind is clear to see it.

No, the Buddhists talk of other hell-realms. Way, way, way worse than Earth. You don't want to visit there. Humanity ain't so bad after all.

 

 

[Guest Annetta]

@sweater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)

[Prabhaker]

@Annetta  Buddha was a Hindu , read Idea of hell in Hinduism.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)

[Guest Annetta]

@Prabhaker Jeez, these descriptions of hell are intense.  

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, Annetta said:

these descriptions of hell are intense.  

It will be easier if we understand few about the interval between the giving up of one body and the taking of another. 

First, the fact is that the experiences of that interval are like dreams. Whenever one experiences something, at that moment the experience is that of a real happening. But when one recalls it in memory, it becomes like a dream; it is dreamlike because there is no use of the senses. Your feeling and your conviction that a happening is real come through your senses and your body.

After the giving up of one body and before the taking of another we do not have senses. The body itself is not there, so whatever you might experience in that state is like a dream, as if you are seeing a dream. When we see dreams, we do not doubt their reality. This is very interesting. After some time we come to doubt its reality, but we never doubt it while in the dream. The dream seems real. That which is real sometimes causes us to doubt whether what is seen is real or not, but in a dream such a doubt is never created. Why? Because a dream will not tolerate the slightest doubt; otherwise it will immediately break.

Just similar to this condition is the interval between two bodies. Whatever happens during that period seems absolutely real – so real that we can never know such a reality with our eyes and senses. The heavenly damsels they encounter are so real to them – real such as no woman seen through our senses can ever be. That is also why there is no end to the miseries of spirits. Their miseries befall them so realistically, such as they never do in real life.

So what we call heaven and hell are just deep dream lives. The intensity of the fire burning in hell can never be found in real life, though it is a very inconsistent fire. In scriptures, there are descriptions of the fires of hell, into which you are thrown without being burned. But one is never aware of this inconsistency – that if you were thrown into an intense fire you would not be able to withstand the heat; yet you are not in any way being burned. This inconsistency, that ”I am being burned in the fire,” that the fire is terrible, that the burning is unbearable and yet ”I am not burned at all,” is realized only after one is out of this dreamlike experience.

In the interval between two births, there are two types of souls. One type is of evil souls. For them it is difficult to find a womb for another birth. The other type consists of good souls. For such souls also it is difficult to find suitable wombs for taking another birth.

Between these two are the majority of souls in which there is no fundamental difference, but only a difference of character, personality and mental make-up. They are born immediately.

During that interval, there is no clear awareness of the duration of time. Because of this, Christianity has said that there is hell forever. This is said on the basis of the memory of those who have seen a very long dream. It was such a long dream that when they returned they had no memory of any relationship between this body and the previous one. That is why they said that hell is eternal and it is very difficult to get out of it. Good souls see happy dreams and evil souls see unhappy dreams. Only because of their dreams are they feeling unhappy and miserable.

Heaven and hell are also memories of a dream period. Descriptions can be given. It is only on such descriptions that concepts of heaven and hell have been evolved by all religions. The descriptions are different not because the places are different, but because the mental states of the individuals recalling the experiences are different. Therefore, when Christianity describes heaven, it will be different from what Hinduism will describe, because descriptions depend on different states of consciousness. 

Actually, every person will bring back a different story. It is more or less like when we all sleep in the same room and then get up and describe our dreams. We have slept in the same room; we are at the same place, but our dreams will be different. Everything depends upon the person.

Dimensions Beyond the Known ~ Osho

[Guest Annetta]

@Prabhaker How much Osho do you have memorized, you seem to have something informative for most conversations.

This is really interesting.  Def. gunna read up on Buddhist/Hindu hell for a few weeks.  Fascinated. Do you have any more info on the afterlife, heaven, hell??

[Prabhaker]

@Annetta Download and read 

http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download/osho-books/hindi-translations/Dimensions_beyond_the_Known.pdf

Dimensions Beyond the Known ~ Osho

A fascinating journey into the many mysterious realms of our existence, including what happens to a person after death, reincarnation, the esoteric roots of religious experience, and the dimension of time. There is also an account of the Tibetan practice of bardo. The beauty of this book is that it explains metaphysical concepts in a simple and comprehensive way, at the same time presenting some challenging new perspectives on the universe and what makes it tick.

Osho also talks intimately about his own past life in Tibet 700 years ago, and the significance of his taking birth in the 20th century.

[Paintballer]

Talks of realms. While you know only this one is pointless, and talks of this realm being a hell. Even more so. Calling this planet, the lives in it, and the suffering in it an illusion. Is itself an illusion. Suffering exists. So do egos. They are very real, however you can get rid of both and live in bliss if you so choose.

 

"After satori one might think mountains are no longer mountains, and trees are no longsr trees, but after enlightenment. Mountains are once again moutains and trees are once again trees"

Edited June 1, 2017 by Paintballer

[Guest Annetta]

Nice!  I still need to read the other one you posted.  I'm gunna dig into this tomorrow, though.  Thanks for the link Prabs!
Bon appetit!