Ai/machine Learning As Consciousness Promoting Field

[vikisss1]

Hello, as I am very passionate about computer programming and I have decided to major in programming, but I started to doubt  that somehow computer sience is not higher consciousness activity... I am currently doing some game programming and a little of design in my cousin software company, but while searching material about spirituality and reading prominent people ideas about computer games I see that computer games are considered addictive and do lower consciousness... At the same time I know that programming is my strength, I have already got a decent knowledge in C#, Java, Javascript, C++. This is why I don't want to change my life purpose and career, but I do want to study highly conscious field. However  I started to think that programming might not be highly conscious activity... This is why I think that Artificial intelligence and machine learning are related to consciousness. I made some research and currently have an opinion, that it will help to understand human mind more, and solve whole intelligence puzzle. Also advanced mathematics are required and that sounds highly conscious. I still haven't figured out a concrete plan for mastering those two domains, but I am certain that I will manage to do it. And I would be grateful if someone could share his insights about AI and whether it is highly conscious activity. I saw some similar topics in this forum, this is why I believe that someone will share his opinion , maybe give some advices

Edited May 29, 2017 by vikisss1

[Leo Gura]

Just because one studies or models the mind in an academic setting does not mean they are doing anything to raise their own personal consciousness. It's like: just because you're a heart surgeon doesn't mean you have a healthy heart. Meany heart surgeons are fat and unhealthy.

Also, consciousness != AI. This is big misconception. Consciousness is the very fabric of existence. AI is about mechanical algorithms which resemble the actions of mind. But mind != consciousness. Consciousness is actually almost the inverse of mind.

All that said, I don't want to bum you out. If you really have a passion for AI and programming, that could be a valid life purpose. But just don't confuse it with raising your own consciousness, or other people's consciousnesses.

Additionally, if you want to make your life purpose about using technology to help people actually raise their consciousness, that is a viable path. But note, very few people are doing that. There is a lot of self-delusion in the tech industry about how their technology affects consciousness of ordinary people. Most of the tech actually makes things much worse for people. And AI is not about helping people raise consciousness, it's about making computers more efficient or more capable. So you have to be very careful here, otherwise you could end up having the opposite impact of what you intended.

Also, you should consider what affect sitting at a computer for 10 hours a day coding has on your consciousness and quality of life. Is that how you really want to live your life? Staring into a box while telling yourself you are living a high consciousness lifestyle? How are you different from a slug hooked up to a VR machine?

[Timotheus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, you should consider what affect sitting at a computer for 10 hours a day coding has on your consciousness and quality of life. Is that how you really want to live your life? Staring into a box while telling yourself you are living a high consciousness lifestyle? How are you different from a slug hooked up to a VR machine?

Thank you!

[electroBeam]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, you should consider what affect sitting at a computer for 10 hours a day coding has on your consciousness and quality of life. Is that how you really want to live your life? Staring into a box while telling yourself you are living a high consciousness lifestyle? How are you different from a slug hooked up to a VR machine?

That's just about every job out there these days. Even being a writer. Minus coaching, teaching and obviously outdoor activities. 

Is that any different to your job? You're basically a PD researcher. That must require 10 hours of staring into a box a day.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, electroBeam said:

That's just about every job out there these days. Even being a writer. Minus coaching, teaching and obviously outdoor activities. 

Is that any different to your job? You're basically a PD researcher. That must require 10 hours of staring into a box a day.

It's extra-bad for coders. I've coded quite a bit myself in the past, and I worked in an industry with professional coders. It's an obscenely unhealthy and unconscious lifestyle. Much more so than being a writer. Coding has a way of sucking you in.

I don't spend 10 hours a day starting into a box. I could minimize my computer activity to maybe 5 hours per week. I'm pretty flexible. The core of my work is not dependent on computers. And I'm far from the best role-model as far as high-consciousness lifestyle.

[Beyond Words]

@Leo Gura Yes. I'm working in a tech startup now and I swear most of the programmers I work with are the least conscious people I've ever met.

But what's the solution to people like me who can get into a flow state while doing math and programming?

Transitioning the world to sustainable energy or creating new art with deep learning algorithms seem to have a conscious impact. 

I guess outsourcing the grunt work may be a solution.

[electroBeam]

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's extra-bad for coders

Can you elaborate on how this differs to say an accountant, or a secretary, or a receptionist, or a mechanical engineer working on solidworks, or a construction engineer, or even a writer; who sits at a computer, writing away.

Yes, the actual work differs quite a bit. Coding is mechanical and very dry. But this is no different to physics(the stuff Albert did all day)?

I've researched quite a bit on what the best job for me would be(as part of your life purpose) and have discovered that I was put here to invent something that would connect us with the world. Maybe like an app that shoots people koans to read every day. Or maybe turn it into a game to make it fun, etc. But no matter what I choose to invent, its going to be behind a cubicle, because every job ive researched that involves invention, is behind a cubicle. 

Some awesome jobs that aren't behind a cubicle: a firefighter, fighter pilot, surgeon, lawyer, etc. But all of these jobs are not for ones with a creator mindset, because you don't create anything in them, you are just a user of an invention. You can't be a visionary and be a fire fighter.

So how can you make an inventive impact, and not be behind a cubicle, with arrangements like that?

[Afonso]

1 hour ago, Beyond Words said:

@Leo Gura Yes. I'm working in a tech startup now and I swear most of the programmers I work with are the least conscious people I've ever met.

But what's the solution to people like me who can get into a flow state while doing math and programming?

Transitioning the world to sustainable energy or creating new art with deep learning algorithms seem to have a conscious impact. 

I guess outsourcing the grunt work may be a solution.

@Leo Gura please answer this, I'm at the same position. I love growing, personal development and I have this thirst for TRUTH. but my flow states are writing and programming......

Edited May 30, 2017 by Afonso

[Leo Gura]

You can do anything consciously, I suppose. The question is, will you?

Where there is a vision, there is a way.

When I denounce coding, I'm mostly talking about the typical way it is done. That doesn't mean you can't find a better way to do it.

You have to be creative and think outside the box if you want your career -- no matter what the career is -- to align with higher consciousness. Working 8 hours a day at a computer is a problem for everyone these days. Fundamentally, it's anti-human. You were not designed to do that. It's not healthy. Are you noticing how you've domesticated yourself, like a factory farm cow?

If you spend some time living in a good ashram, you'll see just how toxic and dysfunctional your entire lifestyle was. And you'll never want to go back to it.

None of this is to say you can't do it. I'm just pointing things out here to people who claim they want high-consciousness living.

[vikisss1]

On 2017-05-30 at 0:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

Also, consciousness != AI. This is big misconception. Consciousness is the very fabric of existence. AI is about mechanical algorithms which resemble the actions of mind. But mind != consciousness. Consciousness is actually almost the inverse of mind.

@Leo Gura Thanks for valid information! I really appreciate a straightforward and prominent  way of answering complex questions! I have read ideas of other people in this chat and I agree with them that computer programming brings a flow state. I can't attain that state from any other activity, aside from coding, bodyweight exercising&tennis and meditation.  I especially feel that state after 1-2 hours intense coding. And I searched that flow state might be a indicator of higher consciousness. Is it true?  I am asking, because I have not heard that in your videos, maybe I missed something 

[Leo Gura]

@vikisss1 No, flow state is another thing. You can be in flow state playing video games or watching TV. So it doesn't say much about your quality of consciousness.

You can teach yourself to get into flow state doing pretty much anything.

Flow state is nice, and it can be one clue to your LP, but it's not the only factor. You could be in flow state raping corpses.

[Rocky]

The major is certainly somewhat related to the topic, i major in mechatronics and learn somewhat about this too. Although I personally found learning basic psychology very useful in making and understanding the comparison between humans and computers. 

But moreover, I don't think AI has quite achieved consciousness yet. Although currently people are trying to create ways in which idk if it's the AI, computer or what it is that could do this but technology that could program itself in ways in which it could adapt to sensory input, as I'm sure you're aware AI at the moment isn't technically conscious, it's just performing preset outputs regardless of the input. But if you have technology that could create its own output and code, then you are closer to true conscious AI. Which is what a friend of mine studying electronics told me after having lectures on AI by researchers on this topic at his uni (Technical University of Eindhoven)

Although I personally still see issues with this as being truly conscious as no matter what we create it's still from our own ideas and vision like it's a designed tailored product from a human, and will only react and be aware and conscious of what we allow it to be and give it. It's consciousness that we could ever give it will be what we think and can interpret it as and can get it as close as possible to what we think it is without truly achieving it. Like fake consciousness that's not really consciousness, even if we had the total understanding of consciousness I still believe this would stand true just from my understanding of how current engineering is and will probably always be. You will never get something to run the perfect way in practice, only in theory and I think that will stand true for artificial conciousness.

I mean AI's consciousness is kind of screwed from the beginning, both its output and input would just be artificial senses and reactions replicated in what people think suits it best by practical means combined with never being able to achieve true consciousness anyway.

Sorry if I don't get this message across very well it's hard for me to explain what I mean on such a complex topic.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Rocky

[Leo Gura]

@Rocky What you're talking about is sentience, not consciousness.

[Rocky]

Yea admittedly when I was typing this it seemed that it had more to do with sentience than consciousness. I could be wrong but I think if technology is to become conciouss, it would have to be sentient and therefore achieving sentient AI would be a relatively major milestone on the road to creating AI consciousness if it's possible.

[vikisss1]

@Rocky Yes I quite got your ideas! I can definitely agree with a lot of it. I just feel more motivated to pursue my life purpose