Dropping Out Of High-school.

[Lorcan]

Secondary School (or high school as you call it in America) is not helping me become the best version of myself. It is the opposite, it is bland, so dry, systematic, exam-centered and shallow. You must sit in class to much instruction thats only concern is to pass exams.

My main purpose for writinf this thread is to find out whether I am allowed to drop out at 16. In Ireland,the minimum age to drop-out age is 16.

However, from reading through some legistlation I did not not find anywhere where it said was my choice.

I want to drop out school so I may learn what I MUST learn, and I have to learn to become fulfilled , to pursue to the death,my life purpose and generate an income directly from the purpose also.

In my head, almost everyday, the word "revolution,revolution" appears in my mind.

School is in conflict with my life purpose.

It boils my blood when I am sitting at home assessing the nutritional value of a pot noodle for a homework assignment, when I would be doing activities such as Meditation, Exercise, Reading.(Non-Fiction)

I should be studying (Karl)Marx. Not studying for School marks.

I want my education to be entirely in my hands, but instead the state says "No, you must sit in a cell and fill your head with mostly un-practical Trivia you arent going to use" . In-efficent at educating, effective at teaching obedience to the state (for the most part).

I can admire Leos advice video for highschool students where it is a sort of "Manipulate the corrupt system so you can actually BENEFIT from it"

Such as the benefit of having a strong work ethic. However, in doing this, involves manipulating/brainwashing yourself into studying things that are un-practical to what you want to do, by tricking yourself by making everything seem so fascinating.

Which they are, history, is fascinating. But school makes ir boring, ludicrous and stupid.

It is like If I was a prisoner in prisoner of war camp and the food consists of a daily portion of stale bread and watery saline-water soup. Leo wants me to really to develop a love for this stale bread and watery saline-water soup by tricking myself to love the flavours and see how great the nutritional value is.  Which, if one is to be sentened to life in this camp, this technique is not a bad idea.

Outside of the prison however, I can enjoy freshly baked bread and homemade soup, it is much easier to enjoy this soup AND there is substaincially more nutrition then the prison slop.

 

Likewise with school, the stale bread and watery saline-soup represents the teaching of a "subject"(lets say for example history) via modern schooling.

The fresh bread and homemade soup represent the teaching of exactly the same subject (history for this example) via oneself.

Here is a quote from Don Juan sums up the point Im making well.

"All paths are the same:they lead nowhere. However, a path without a heart is never enjoyable. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy - It does not make a warrior work at liking it; it makes for a joyful journey; as long as a man follows it,he is one with it."

Another quote

"Power rests on the kind of knowledge that one holds. What is the sense of knowing things that are useless? They will not prepare us for our unavoidable encounter with the unknown"

Make no Mistake, I highly value learning. I want and I MUST learn more and more, and I am doing what I can to set a solid foundation by Reading(Self-Help and NonFiction, history books etc),Meditating , Taking Cold showers and exercising.

The foundation that school is setting for me and millions of students alike is a floridian swamp land.

(Note:When I refer to Marx, I am refering to that of studying Political Theory in general. I used Marx because it rhymes with school marks )

[Dantas]

Look, I hear you out and I dropped out of school at the age of 16 with the same standards.

What I found out is that is harder in the long run and inevitably the world will always ask you that cost. If you feel it in your heart that you must drop out of school, make sure to develop a plan to get your degrees later or save a lot of money and invest in your life purpose thoroughly.

Also be reasonable and ask your self very honestly if you cannot change your mind later.

If I could come back in time I would've stayed at school. Even though my life purpose paid off like I imagined, it gave me a lot of headache when I got older. The world values results and hardly values knowledge alone.

Better to have someone less suspicious drop a line, because I did developed my passions and studied a lot after I gone off school. But word to wise, I would have much preferred to stay if I knew about Self-Actualization back then.

Good Luck (-:

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dantas

[Lorcan]

36 minutes ago, Dantas said:

Look, I hear you out and I dropped out of school at the age of 16 with the same standards.

What I found out is that is harder in the long run and inevitably the world will always ask you that cost. If you feel it in your heart that you must drop out of school, make sure to develop a plan to get your degrees later or save a lot of money and invest in your life purpose thoroughly.

Also be reasonable and ask your self very honestly if you cannot change your mind later.

If I could come back in time I would've stayed at school. Even though my life purpose paid off like I imagined, it gave me a lot of headache when I got older. The world values results and hardly values knowledge alone.

Here is how I see it. 

I have a choice, a choice to spend 2 years of my life preparing for a test. This tests gets me points. With these points I can get a "college degree". A College degree "raises" your employment prospects , certain degrees are more in demand then others, especially STEM subjects (Anything in the field of Science, Technology, Engineering and Medicine). The degree ALONE will not get you a job, often A LOT of other work also needs to be put in to get a job with a company. (Some companies do not even require you to have a degree and are more interested in what results you can generate and less about you sat in college for 4 years and passed the exams). Then if I end I get a job , it is almost guaranteed , to be absolutely nothing to with my life purpose.

Or I could spend those 2 years of my life actually LEARNING practical stuff (theory, that if applied correctly, generates results). I am not looking to be "employed". What my life-purposes entails makes the only use of degrees is for attaining knowledge to do relating my life purpose, and why would I take a college degree for that purpose when I could learn more more effectively or equally as effectively myself?

I do not like mentioning my life purpose because is sound egotistically ambitious, and perhaps foolish because of how a gargantuan of a task it is.(But then, so is gargantuan the desire for paradise from mankind) I want to Highly Reduce Government corruption (especially in 1st world countries where the corruption is not totalitarian like in North Korea, but more subtle such as in the banking sector and conduct/methods of governing the country) and create a better society, to create as close as you can get to a Utopian society. To make the best society possible  that actually works and that is not some sort of "fantasy", where in for example, Robots do all the Work and everyone is on vacation 24/7

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Lorcan

[Dantas]

@Lorcan Yes, that is all true. But is not what I said. I only meant, in the end, you'd might like to have finished those two years. Or not:

When you start to get a hold of the pratical stuff, you'll realise LEARNING is all about learning to be patient and especially when you're young. Also that there will be plenty of time once you've finished with the more worldly, borning, useless stuff. Because just as inside of every system not all of it ends up being useless to your purpose.

Again, on the other hand, I did exactly what you want to do. And it worked out well.

Just please reconsider it a lot before you actually drop out of it. I don't believe in any way Leo's Advice was for you to drop out of school. 

1 hour ago, Lorcan said:

Manipulate the corrupt system so you can actually BENEFIT from it

It was very literal and objective: get everything you need handled, so that you can benefit from whatever you want.

If that means you drop out of school, drop out of school. All this theorizing will not really help you and what I'm suggesting is that you place your expectations on long term plans, like that, with caution. The reason is because you're at a very good age to waste some more time.

This might sound strange to you, but one of the best things you can do at that age is to endure the system, as you develop yourself, at the same time. It won't work to run away from it as you try and develop your ressources at home, unless you're already an independent genius and an artist. And even then, you'll say: "shit, there's so much time left, and I'm far behind, but I still don't want to do it".

Then also, you might ask this question: "why are you telling me not to do something that you claim to have worked well for you?"

Literally because of this: I was fucking lucky, it was way harder & in the end, it was completely unnecessary to work on my life purpose.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dantas

[AndreiC]

If you want to bring about any sort of meaningful change in today's society you need to be able to relate to other people, all sorts of other people. If you don't take part in similar activities with them you will not be able to gain their respect. In fact you may become so disconnected to the way life works for most people that you will lose your ability to think as they do.

You need to know the current system inside out if you plan to change it. Change is slow and dificult and revolutions are made by the many, not by the few. In your case i would consider a phd in social sciences, not quiting highschool.

Besides, corruption is a part of life, the more forcefull you are in attempting to remove it, the more of it you produce. Other Marx readers wanted the same, but managed to create the system in North Korea.

 

Know your enemy and play the long game. Stay in school.

[Dantas]

@AndreiC That's very good.

[Lorcan]

11 minutes ago, Dantas said:

@Lorcan Yes, that is all true. But is not what I said. I only meant, in the end, you'd might like to have finished those two years. Or not:

When you start to get a hold of the pratical stuff, you'll realise LEARNING is all about learning to be patient and especially when you're young. Also that there will be plenty of time once you've finished with the more worldly, borning, useless stuff. Because just as inside of every system not all of it ends up being useless to your purpose.

Again, on the other hand, I did exactly what you want to do. And it worked out well.

Just please reconsider it a lot before you actually drop out of it. I don't believe in any way Leo's Advice was for you to drop out of school. 

It was very literal and objective: get everything you need handled, so that you can benefit from whatever you want.

If that means you drop out of school, drop out of school. All this theorizing will not really help you and what I'm suggesting is that you place your expectations on long term plans, like that, with caution. The reason is because you're at a very good age to waste some more time.

This might sound strange to you, but one of the best things you can do at that age is to endure the system, as you develop yourself, at the same time. It won't work to run away from it as you try and develop your ressources at home, unless you're already an independent genius and an artist. And even then, you'll say: "shit, there's so much time left, and I'm far behind, but I still don't want to do it".

 

 

Leo himself and others replyed to me in a previous thread regarding how to make 100k a year without a college degree.

The main feedback I got from that thread was too directly allign how I generate money with my life purpose.

I have got time to waste? My life could end at any moment, or shortened substaincially, and even I am to live to the ripe old of age of 100 , that time will come so soon, as I near that age my body and mind will start to decay, and then I will be gone, and you will be gone. And the oppertunity to exist may not return again.

 

What I do know, Is that I dont know. And with that knowledge, how can one squander his life in any such way by thinking "I have time to waste". At this young age, enough time is already wasted on "jerking to the strings of selfish impulse" as Marcus would put it and spending time to rid of bad habits.

[Dantas]

@Lorcan I never said you've got time to waste, I said you're 16. There's plenty more for you to learn and you don't want to be left behind. Learn how to deal with it, instead of trying to find the perfect format for your new revolutionary endeavour.

This thought your life could end at any moment so you should change everything will very likely stay in your mind until you're dead. Don't take what I said into meaning "you should just embrace the system and waste your life away". Perhaps I could've said "Use the benefit that you're young" and it would have the same meaning I intended. 

The fact is nobody would urge to convince you to stay at shcool if they couldn't predict the worse results you'll get from personal experience. I also didn't say you should stop following your vision and what's important to you. In fact, one thing you'll notice, maybe today, maybe years from now, is that staying in school will really be more helpful to your personal development and growth.

By the way I also remember Leo saying somewhere he did it to the utmost and would never be where he is today had not being the circles he went through in life. That is perhaps one of the most valuable things he can teach you.

[Lorcan]

4 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

If you want to bring about any sort of meaningful change in today's society you need to be able to relate to other people, all sorts of other people. If you don't take part in similar activities with them you will not be able to gain their respect. In fact you may become so disconnected to the way life works for most people that you will lose your ability to think as they do.

You need to know the current system inside out if you plan to change it. Change is slow and dificult and revolutions are made by the many, not by the few. In your case i would consider a phd in social sciences, not quiting highschool.

Besides, corruption is a part of life, the more forcefull you are in attempting to remove it, the more of it you produce. Other Marx readers wanted the same, but managed to create the system in North Korea.

 

Know your enemy and play the long game. Stay in school.

Im not convinced. The Marx reference was for the rhyme effect with the word "marks" more then anything else.

I have not read deep into any of his publications either.

Why should I get a phd for social sciences? Why do need a certificate from an institution to say X has accomplished Y and now hold Z in social sciences.

When in-fact, all the information is available on the web and in books.

When I talk about my life purpose, the "I" in "I want to highly reduce government corruption" is, or I would like, to de-emphasise it. It is not about me, its about the purpose, if someone else before me manages to accomplish that life purpose, thats amazing!

I am also, not working towards it alone, I am going to get and have gotten people on board.

(I am in contact with Revolutionary_Thinking from this forum and we have had discussions regarding modern education and revolution etc)

[Lorcan]

How could I get "left behind" if I drop out.

I dont intend at all to be a couch potato playing video games for 2 years . Quite the opposite, I intend to spend hours in libraries reading all sorts of non-fiction, historys, biographies, self-help,political theory, philosophy. Everything I need to know, as you said to know "the system inside out" and also engaging in all sorts of personal devlopment work.

How will school benefit me over 2 years of learning what I must learn to "know the system inside out" and more?

What use will be a college degree to me? I dont what to be in the field of Science, Technology,Engineeering, or Medicine, so what use is a degree to me with my particular life purpose?

I have been told a "degree" is not going to stop me from what I want to do, so why should I spent jumping through hoops to get  a political science degree certification from Y institution when I can learn anything I want about political science without getting that degree in the first place.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Lorcan

[Dantas]

@Lorcan  Staying in school will make everything slower.

That means you'll have less time to read all sorts of non-fiction, historys, biographies, self-help, philosophy and even more. And you'll also have less time to meditate, doing the theory and working at what you want.

This is good. Not the less time you'll have, but that it will take longer. That means you're not just reading books but at actually seeing how they work on pratical everyday system.

The amount of wisdom you'll develop from this is actually orders of magnitude, because you'll be able to reach twenty with a much stronger foundation: both in theory and pratice.

Also, you'll have the school if you need to. That's what it all boils down to. 

The fact is right now you haven't completed it and you think it's going to be a huge waste of time. That's what I mean by being left behind. Means the world actually goes on in the corrupt way that it does and all the theory in the world will not be suficient for you to deliver the great things that you want.

Do it the hard way. Do it longer, take the tests, learn as you move forward. If you're right about all of it, you'll have a much stronger foundation after you've completed it (because time do teaches you stuff) and much better planing (because you'll have the theory and the pratical system handled).

The only one other thing I'd like to add is that: I did not ever said I doubt your goals and your capacity, but merely tried to show you there is more value on taking the high road.

You can think about it like this: time is not going to end in two years, most likely, and if your purpose is as real as you say, it will surive it, grow stronger and really be more helpful to you in the long run.

It is not the case that because you're in school you can't read all these books. You can still read them, only slower. And any quality personal development book will tell you that this is better. This might not be the purpose of the school, but you can take your ideias and your age and turn it around to your own benefit and develop true mastery over the fields you like.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dantas

[Lorcan]

Dantas, I do appreciate your advice but I am not getting some of your points....

Why would I want everything to go slower?

Why is it good to take things slower? (The means of which things are being slowed down is is by modern schooling)

How will I reach twenty with a much stronger foundations from modern schooling than doing my own education and self help work in 4 years.

This doesnt add up. Thats 4 years of Self Devlopment Work compared to like 2 years devlopment work.

I dont at all exspect to be a political gura from 4 years of study out of school, far from it.

I am life long student.

When was it inherent that dropping out of school was the easy way? I imagine discpilining oneself to do 1-2 hours of meditation daily is easy is it? Or how about searching through many many texts to find an important political theory insight?

Let us consider difficulty in the field of personal devlopment too. Does experiancing difficulty equal growth? One might fall into the trap into thinking that Experiancing Difficulty = Growth, when it does not, it is false growth.(If that is true, I am not sure)

Surely, pursuing ones life purpose, in it self, the purpose itsel generates difficulty for ther person trying to live up to the purpose to deal with and surpass.

 

[Dantas]

@Lorcan

(I edited this post to mention you)

By taking on the challange of finishing school, you will have a better time managing your expectations, you see? All this force of will and wanting to act reliably on your plan to meditate two hours a day per year is not a perfect science, because to each one of us is slightly different as we move forward, in your case, your life will change. Not because you're going to get older.

I think telling someone they're not wise enough because they're young is sheer bullshit and when I was your age I would've like to punch someone in the nose for that. That said, all I'm advocating is you have to consider the unknown and the passing of time.

As time moves forward, you'll be experiencing new things and learning and growing. If you stay in school, you'll only save your self from the possible regret of having dropped out of it. People will surely treat you different when they know, and I assume you don't care about that. Great. 

But one of the things I tell you these points is because I learned from harsh experience. I considered myself a genius after reading several books and developed the hability to write a book, to have more open mind than everyone else around me and it made me much more creative. One of the reasons it's because I didn't have anyone to tell me "don't drop out of school" and "Hey, this purpose of yours is a whole field of learning that requires a long life commitment to mastery". I just wanted everything too soon.

So even though I had a lot of knowledge, I couldn't get anyone to understand what I was doing, why, and lost many opportunities between 16 and 21 (which is my current age). Had I stayed in the academic world I would never have changed my values and I would still have more opportunities and done all of it sooner. See where I was wrong?

What you must understand is that it does no good for you to use your time out of school to trying and mastering life at home. Not unless you have no purpose to give back.

But hey, you must listen to what I told you before we explored the subject deeper. I'm not here to prevent you from leaving, and if you're sick and tired of it, no one really can. That's why I said it worked out for me, because I paid this cost. I've dealt with it at all costs and, for my carrer, there were many. I can only hope that you know what you're doing, because you'll run the same risk at your own accord. And I wouldn't have, not if I knew all the stuff I know now. I only found Leo and this Channel after making many mistakes and learning from hard experience.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dantas

[Dan Arnautu]

@Lorcan If you don't have any tangible real life skills yet, dropping out will only backfire on you. 

If you do have tangible skills, drop out after you produce some results, not before. Run some experiments just so you don't fall flat on your face after you drop out.

Also, what's the big deal? You can just half ass your assignments and get passing grades. That would free up at least 50% of your time dedicated to school and put it in a side hustle. That's what I'm doing right now in college. I ain't gonna do anything with my own degree, but it's a good time to do great foundational work in order to be succesful later, because no one can bother me and I can study and do whatever I want in my spare time (which is 90% of the time because I handle school work intelligently -and I still get A's with minimal work- and no, I'm not a genius in any way - I can recommend you some books if you want to figure out how to do that too). 

Your only problem is a lack of time management and smart work. You can make progress on a magnitudinal level in your self-development while also being in school and doing boring school work. 

Dropping out ain't gonna solve anything. Your problems are only going to take a different form. If you are smart, you're gonna play the system easily and figure out a way to do 3 hours schoolwork per week and 50-100 hours your own thing.

The question is, are you actually willing to put in the work?

Edited May 25, 2017 by Dan Arnautu

[Dantas]

@Dan Arnautu Great addition, Dan.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dantas

[d0ornokey]

Can you take serious action? Everyone has the ability of course. But putting that in practice is much harder. Have you taken serious action in the past? 

If so, then yes it will be okay to drop out. If you're not planning on getting a job what use is a high school diplomma anyway 

[Leo Gura]

Stay in school. College is optional, but if you can't finish high school, you're really kidding yourself.

[d0ornokey]

@Leo Gura whats the difference? 

[Lorcan]

So if I am not staying in school to get a diploma or college degree. Why would I choose to spend 2 years of imposed "learning" when I can learn a lot more , at home, in the library, in books, in doing ,practice and action myself?

What is there in the experience of schooling is there to learn which I cannot do myself?

What we are learning now how far can past the utilitarian every-day use like most of the stuff learning in elementary school and some of the stuff in the early years of high-school. Now what most of what we are doing is learning information off for the sake of passing an examination.

How am I kidding myself by quitting high-school? I am not looking for an easy route and I do not think ceasing to attend a government route is a particularly easy route either.

Leo, you have said it yourself. Focus on mastering life and business, not jumping through the governments hoops like a well trained poodle. Now you want me to jump through their hoops. Like a well trained poodle? You also said that degrees and diplomas in effect do not really matter at all in real adult life. It what results you can generate.

If I try hard enough , and with right theory. How is ceasing to attending the government imposed "education" going to stop me from generating results. I don't think so.

And surely Dan Aranatu, I can learn these tangible skills myself. Actually, what tangible skills does school teach me that I cannot teach me myself? I can discipline my self if need be.

What tangible skills must I learn. I must learn them. Oratory? Accounting? Money Management? What must I learn?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Lorcan

[Dan Arnautu]

@Lorcan

A high-school dropout is ineligible for 90% of jobs in America.

A high-school graduate’s lifetime income is 50 to 100% higher than a non-graduate’s.

Until you get even close to your goal, what are you gonna do? Do you have a 1 month, 5 month, 12 month, 1 year, 5 year, 10 year plan for what you are gonna do after you drop out?

Ok, so barely anyone will hire you. Now what? Start a business? Let's hope you get enough to sustain yourself before investing at least 2 years of time and money into it, while not considering the fact that your business has a very high (90%) chance of falling flat on it's face (look up the numbers, I'm not saying these from the top of my head).

Or do you think your parents will care for all your needs once you drop out? They will most likely send you to work and guess what? You don't even have a high school degree and nobody will hire you.

You are free to do what you want. You are just looking here for permission and validation. If that's what you really wanna do, do it, but you won't have the right to complain later if it doesn't work out.