Came Across Apt Analogy When Browsing The Redpill

[Guest username]

I meant to share this a while back, but found it in my catalog of posts for the forum. 

I'm an advocate of learning game for improving success in dating and don't buy into the mainstream narrative of letting everything unfold effortlessly and naturally.  

In this redpill thread , there are some analogies made between guys who try to learn game and deaf people who are trying to learn piano.  If you translated the common arguments against pick-up theory to arguments against learning a piano, it would roughly look like this:

Quote

• the desire to learn indicates that you hate pianos
• sheet music is manipulative, and it doesn't work anyway because...
• every piano is completely different (which of course is true, but not in the way that would make learning piano impossible)
• there is no actual mechanical connection between keys and strings, and people who say there is are lying
• musical concepts like harmony and chords are cultural constructs. Appreciating them is oppressive to pianos
• what you should do is just stand in front of a piano and "if it's meant to happen, it'll happen"
• the people you have observed actually playing pianos aren't really playing them. You're just imagining it
• if you ever express frustration or confusion, that indicates that you're a terrible person
• if you report some success - perhaps you managed to play a scale - you're probably lying and have never actually played a piano
• and the most offensive thing you can ever do is to suggest that a piano might be out of tune or that its quality degrades with age
• if you make an analogy for the purpose of learning, like for example by comparing the singing on "doe ray me fa so" to the playing of a scale, that too is offensive, and also deserving of mockery, because clearly a piano is not a human voice

Also

Quote

• If you play something that sounds good, it wasn't your doing. The piano is probably broken and the keys are in the wrong places.
• Anybody who has to practice piano will always be manipulating people into believing they're naturally good. All true piano players just know how to play.

 

[aurum]

@username yes a lot of mainstream narratives when it comes to dating are held up as "moral" when they're really just a select group of people's agends. Actually, that's what all of morality is .

Understand though that learning Game from a woman's perspective is typically creepy as fuck. That doesn't mean it's wrong or you shouldn't learn it. But that is how it's percieved.

[Spiral]

It's counterproductive to try to learn game from a male(your own) prospective

The average guy might think this way: If a girl hot said "Hi, sleep with me " he would probably sleep with her, therefore he should say that. That would obviously not work, with the majority of girls.

That being said, I would not primarily try to learn game from girls. While they know what they want, they are less likely to know why they want it(because they most likely don't seduce women for a living) and obviously haven't spent much time developing these traits. You also are likely to misunderstand what the attractive aspect is.

Example: A girl tell might you that she wants a guy who can make her laugh and you might assume she means a guy who is good at making funny jokes. While being able to make funny jokes is definitely a positive, that not really what wants when she says that(even if she thinks so herself). I don't want to spoil it, but it's a more complicated than that

Quote

• If you play something that sounds good, it wasn't your doing. The piano is probably broken and the keys are in the wrong places.

Haha, want kind of thinking is that?   

Edited May 25, 2017 by Spiral

[Guest username]

@aurum Yeah, I have a pet theory that it subconsciously signals low value to them. They want partners with good genes who are just like that naturally (even though nobody has top-tier game naturally). If you ask women for tips on how to systematically improve your chances of landing hotties, you will get demonized beyond belief.

I'm not saying they don't have legitimate problems, and I actually sympathize with them quite a bit, but in my experience, most feminists (not all) give awful dating advice. My conversations usually consist of this:

-If I fail to understand their perspective, it is because I am a stupid, sexist pig who is too dumb and arrogant to understand how the world works.

-If they fail to understand my perspective, it is also because I am a stupid, sexist pig who is to dumb and arrogant to be understood and who doesn't even deserve to be considered.

I certainly get the frustration they have with game and men's rights groups, but I think a lot of it certainly has to do with simply not understanding the male perspective

 @Spiral Yeah, it'[s no good to learn game from the perspective of a clueless man.  I agree with your post; I'm not as clueless anymore. Humor is partly about being funny but more importantly is about being able to be light-hearted and confident in any situation. If she's stressed and looking to draw off your masculine strength for support, you have to be nonreactive and positive.

[Guest Annetta]

"Yeah, I have a pet theory that it subconsciously signals low value to them."

True, it's like expecting love and getting a used car salesman.  It does lower the value of a woman, and actually causes image issues for them later on.  Game, pick-up... or "playing" someone is using a person as a means to an end without their knowledge.  It's disingenuous.  This isn't even a "feminist" observation.  It simply is what it is.

"If you ask women for tips on how to systematically improve your chances of landing hotties, you will get demonized beyond belief."

"I certainly get the frustration they have with game and men's rights groups, but I think a lot of it certainly has to do with simply not understanding the male perspective"

I understand the male perspective very well.  I've read up on it.  The fact is, while you guys are practicing to get your own needs met, you really fuck with a lot of women's minds and that's not ok.  That shit makes insecure women feel like nothing more than some fuck toy, something useless.  The women that you guys practice on are the ones who need respect the most.  And then you wonder why feminists even exist?
Feminists make you men feel shameful because you all do it.  There's a line of blood in the wake of most men, whether they care to admit it or not.  Women are fragile.  Respect them.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Annetta

[Guest username]

@Annetta I'm under the impression that you think I'm demonizing the feminist/ women's perspective, which I most certainly am not. I apologize if I'm not reading you clearly.

I agree that the way many men learn game is unethical and dehumanizing. I agree pretty strongly with Leo's video here:

 

My qualms are more with the fact that people demonize learning game as a whole and discourage men from even trying to improve their ability to do well with women, giving advice such as:

- Just be yourself

-You'll find the right person

-Trying to improve systematically is manipulative and unethical

-You need to just let things happen

 

You see the distinction I'm trying to make? I'm not advocating treating women like useless objects (which unfortunately a lot of men who try to learn game do), but I'm defending game as something that is totally okay to learn.  Ethical treatment of women and learning game don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Game is not about using people(though many who practice game do just that); it is about methodically improving your ability to interact with people.

I'm glad you study the male perspective, I'm sure you can sympathize with both men and women. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by username